Primarily for Waterdragon, but everyone else check it out too

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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OK, got some probably pretty stupid questions.

  1. Shui Chiao (sp?) Chinese art of throwing? Waterdragon is doing this as a seperate art, no? But then I heard somebody say that SC should be a part of every style.
    Confused?:confused: Yes.

  2. I am going to study Wing Chun, in Asia (THIS SUMMER!!!) and when I get back. Does Wing Chun have SC in it? Or can I learn it as a seperate art? This question, on reflection, is pretty much the same as number 1.

  3. Is SC good for fighting grapplers, ie. when they go for the clinch you chuck them on their back and remain standing? Are there any anti takedown skills in SC? Any groundfighting?

  4. Would SC be of any use to me, as a small guy, trying to throw a bigger guy? presumably, being a CMA, it would use body mechanics instead of strength, yes?

Thanks

By the way Water, my standing is going good. I am doing 10 minutes a night and don’t really feel the urge to move at all.
Whenever I have the time I try and do anywhere up to 45mins, but I still don’t really feel like I want to move, apart from stretching. But I don’t feel the urge to jiggle about or anything. 1

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Re: Primarily for Waterdragon, but everyone else check it out too

Originally posted by scotty1
[B]OK, got some probably pretty stupid questions.

  1. Shui Chiao (sp?) Chinese art of throwing? Waterdragon is doing this as a seperate art, no? But then I heard somebody say that SC should be a part of every style.
    Confused?:confused: Yes.[/b]

OK. All systems HAVE throws. Shuai Chiao is a system BASED on throws. It is a seperate art because we specialize in throwing. We also have punches, kicks, locks. The emphasis is always on the throw though.

2. I am going to study Wing Chun, in Asia (THIS SUMMER!!!) and when I get back. Does Wing Chun have SC in it? Or can I learn it as a seperate art? This question, on reflection, is pretty much the same as number 1.

Well, I’m sure Wing Chun could make use of throws. Unfortunately, I don’t really know anything about Wing Chun at all. I think it’s almost exclusively a hand art. Ask this one on the Wing Chun forum.

3. Is SC good for fighting grapplers, ie. when they go for the clinch you chuck them on their back and remain standing?

Bro, that pretty much IS Shuai Chiao.

Are there any anti takedown skills in SC? Any groundfighting?

No groundfighting. That’s why I do BJJ. Anti-takedowns skills are there, but not what you’re thinking. I probably want to take you down just as much as the BJJ’er wants to take me down. But guess who spends more time working takedowns?

4. Would SC be of any use to me, as a small guy, trying to throw a bigger guy? presumably, being a CMA, it would use body mechanics instead of strength, yes?

A resounding HE.LL YES!!! If you train your bu.tt off, that is.

By the way Water, my standing is going good. I am doing 10 minutes a night and don’t really feel the urge to move at all.
Whenever I have the time I try and do anywhere up to 45mins, but I still don’t really feel like I want to move, apart from stretching. But I don’t feel the urge to jiggle about or anything. 1 :smiley: :smiley:

Now that is good to hear. You’re about ready to use the arm postures. But make sure you finish your 100 days first. Told you there was a reason not to do tree hugging psotures at first. NOW your body is about ready to get some benefit from that method. Before, it would have been a waste of time. Feels different, don’t it :wink:

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1 - Shuai Chiao is a slightly ambiguous term. On the one hand, it is used to refer to pretty much all throwing and takedown techniques in CMA, much as Chin-Na is used to refer to locking and holding techniques. On the other hand, it is also a fully developed, well rounded art that incorporates a wide variety of striking techs (mostly to set up and finish throws.)

2 - I don’t know much about Wing Chun, but from my understanding it does have a variety of throws, which would be considered ‘shuai,’ if not neccesarily shuai chiao.

3 - Shuai Chiao is made for the clinch and takedown, and unlike judo (which it strongly resembles in other ways) emphasises anti-takedown quite vigorously. Because of it’s history as a battlefield rather than sportive art, SC doesn’t emphasize fighting on the ground much on the assumption that if you are on the ground in a battle, you’re pretty much toast. There are many techniques in Shuai Chiao that are intended to finish an opponent after a throw from a standing position, the throw is insufficient to completely finish the fight, which it often is.

4 - Yes, Shuai Chiao is an excellent art for people of all sizes, and relies on body mechanics. You might also investigate Chang Taijiquan, which which teaches Shuai Chiao techniques and principles in an internal fashion, and thus is more about redirection and stealing balance than strength and size.

Have fun on the mats!

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Hey, crosspost!

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Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Hey, crosspost!

Yeah, and the scary part is we pretty much said the same thing.

And Scotty1, one more thing. Learn to fall very well before anything else. Shuai Chiao training hurts!!!

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Is it like Chin Na? not grappling per say just that Chin Na sounds like it is an art all itself, but is included in many other styles.
Also, with Wingchun, as far as I know there is not a whole lot of throwing but some.

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One clarification in my post -

I said

“There are many techniques in Shuai Chiao that are intended to finish an opponent after a throw from a standing position, the throw is insufficient to completely finish the fight, which it often is.”

I meant

“There are many techniques in Shuai Chiao that are intended to finish an opponent after a throw from a standing position, if the throw is insufficient to completely finish the fight, although the throw is usually plenty.”

Sorry about the bad writing.

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In my personal experience, Wing Chun does not explicitly teach as much of a variety of throws like SC or Judo, but there are a few taught and then general principles taught about controlling the opponent’s center of gravity, whether to throw, trip, etc..

So basically, you get a fair amount, but you’re given the tools to discover more on your own.