>gw bush is aweful
I am in awe of him also…
I HATE
Extremists (Religious and Political [seems a bit superfluous to list
those as two separate institutions])
Those with No Opinions (don’t care)
Those with Opinions, but not the balls to do anything about them
(Someone should fix this sh!t!)
Right-Wing Politicians
Left-Wing Politicians
Conservatives
Moderates
Liberals
Politicians (this won’t get me elected)
Tree-Huggin’ Hippies (Make Love, Not War)
Those who have the opportunity and ability to learn, yet refuse to
(what good is that dumb sh!t?)
The Lazy (know whatimsayin?)
The Zealots (there is no zealotry when one follows the path)
Those who believe what they are told without question
(Violence doesn’t solve anything)
Those that question only to show their presumed intelligence
I think that covers pretty much everyone. Oh, and the elderly. And puppies. 'Specially the cute ones.
The crap some people believe is frightening. Look up how Saddam and the Bathe party came to power, then look up how the Taliban ended up in power. Don’t believe propoganda, look it up for yourself…
It is documented that Saddam was maintained and funded by the USA - in the hope of ridding them of the problems the Ayatola’s In Iran were causing them at the time. He may have gotten in of his accord but he WAS armed to the teeth with American and British weapons.
And to the latter, mujahaddin, thats all I have to say.
Is this the false propaganda you mentioned I’ve been fed?
Well, at least all those thousands found in the mass graves won’t have to suffer anymore…
I didnt say that Saddam and any other mass murderers weren’t bad but you can still put the likes of Henry Kissenger on their level. George Bush has only bareley been in 5 minutes and already has unecessarily caused the deaths of tens of thousands.
[SIZE=4]**** THE MAN! THE REVOLUTION IS AT HAND!![/SIZE]
I think it’s a bit of a catch-22. I do think the region we’re messing in needs to get their act together, yet I also think we’re imminently unqualified to do so. I think by alienating other nations from involvement, we give the enemy one convenient target that can be defeated, as opposed to no single target to be found aside from the whole of the civilized world. I think our country has made idiotic attempts to win the middle eastern world to our side through commercials about how great muslims say life is in the US, and failed to recognize that the real world experience some in that region have with us is our use of dictators to fight the soviets, and then our walking away as those dictators took command. I think that the people here that are willing to act are also willing to make concessions to big business that will just exacerbate problems in the region. I think the idea that any nation as a whole in the middle east will accept our armies as “liberators” except those we already support full on, was horribly naive of our leadership, as were our “post [traditional] war” plans, and I think the very people who had the capacity to act when others didn’t are the same people who will most likely choose to put another puppet in place if the democracy doesn’t work. The only up side I see to this is that eventually, the region will recognize that no other country has their interests at heart, and will pull themselves up by the bootstraps. This doesn’t make our choices good.
As for the whole muslim fundamentalist issue, take away their poverty and you take away their suicide bombers and foot soldiers. Men will fight you to keep their religion, but not their poverty. Remember, it was poor white trash who set off a bomb in OK city. The whole muslim issue is a waste of thought, except to understand their religion. Rich muslims might say “kill the US”, but without poor muslims and US shenanigans, I think you’d find mighty few muslims blowing themselves up. we’d probably have suicide christians were our positions reversed, answering to the fundamentalists in our camp, but because they’ve got the necessities of life covered, they don’t blow up things too often.
In theory, I agree in the idea of stabilizing the region, but I just think we’re politically incapable of doing so. Our military could probably take any region, but our politicians and policy can’t keep them, irrespective of party, imo. We alone can only make an easy target and an easy rallying point for extremists. And we’re doing a godawful job of involving anyone else, and the impression that leaves is that our interests prevent sharing authority, and that does not win faith in the whole program from Americans, from Iraqis, or from anyone else. For this to work, imo, it needs the support of more than Bush fans, more than Americans, and more than the west as a whole. And Bush only has Bush fans and a few others. Our military is great and disciplined and exemplary as far as conduct goes, but in present american politics, I doubt you’d find one party that could claim the same, and our politics are driving the show. That’s what I think.
Also, I think people need to check their thesauruses and find out that terrorism and insurgency are not synonyms. Attacking military targets, however horrible the results, is not an act of terrorism. Ultimately, this kind of word game only makes war itself mean the same thing as terrorism, and then we’re in trouble. Of course, it’s just a propaganda game, using the t word. A woman here recently was accused of an act of terrorism by phoning in some threat to a school. I thought the sniper dude got that, too. I mean, how stupid do you have to be to think that, without that new charge, this guy was getting anything but a one way trip to death row? Are there really people out there going “Man, good thing they’ve got this terrorism charge, or that guy that shot all those people would be getting off scot free”?
/rant
Several of the 9/11 killers were not poor people. Poverty alone does not create zealous behavior. Thousands of hours of television shows showing you how the jews and the Christians are the source of all the worlds problems, followed by a Friday visit to the mosque where you are promised a bevy of virgins and little boys to f@ck in the afterlife - rinse and repeat for your whole life - can make you pretty crazy.
Imagine homicidal Pat Robertsons on every street corner…THAT is the Midle East my friends. Go ahead and read the Quran, and the sermons given every Friday in the Midle East, and by the way, here in the US - in Saudi financed Mosques and schools - and be afraid. Be VERY afraid. Because I don’t think we have the courage as a nation to do what has to be done to stop this scourge of ‘extremeism.’
You put your words together quite nicely, although I believe that the Germans and French are playing games by not allowing the UN to go in now. What they do not understand is that they have as big or bigger stake in what is going on in their backyard.
I love this game, where we all post what we think based on information we all have but recognize is not even close to enough info to come up with a real picture, and then color it with the propaganda of our favorite faction. Here, I’ll switch sides on my own post. Introducing CONSERVATIVE ELBOWS:
KC, you’re undermining our troops by saying that we’re incapable of doing this. And if other nations wanted in, they would have backed us in the UN, instead of taking part in political wrangling.
And why shouldn’t Americans benefit? It was America that took the risk? I don’t get that.
Also, lots of Iraqis have welcomed us, you just don’t see that on the news, for obvious reasons.
You are right about the middle east needing to step up to the plate. That’s why what is happening in Iraq is so important.
And muslims have been killing muslims long before the US was around.:rolleyes:
And again, I’m all for other countries getting behind the US’s efforts, I’m sure our president is as well.
Naive leftist![This is slightly unfair, as in my original post, I didn’t have my alter ego CONSERVATIVE ELBOWS to call a right wing fascist]
That’s fun. I’d like to see Christopher M join in with an argument between Gnostic M and Calvinist M on the topic of salvation.
Monkeyslap,
Which of the bombers were not poor? Just curious. And what does invading Iraq have to do with fighting muslim extremism that wouldn’t have been better served by fighting it in just about any other muslim country, including saudi arabia, seeing as how Sadam Hussein is not a muslim extremist, nor his country exactly notable in support of terrorists? His country housed taliban, but didn’t Pakistan?
Bluesman,
Oh, I agree that France and Germany have political games going on as well. What annoys me is the idea that we, or any payer, doesn’t, especially in regards to this issue for us.
My memory is short, but I’m confident that both Atta and his buddy had good middle class incomes and families.
I think you’ll find that poverty is not the driving factor here. It is part of it, but there are more complex issues at stake here. Including the fact that the world view taught in most of the middle East is like 13th century Europe - and we wouldn’t like those people either, you dang heretics.
KC - I love taking the different points of view - but eventually I draw the line - it is NOT in my best interest to consider the feelings or views of someone actively waging war on me until they are rendered unable to continue waging war or are no more.
Then I can afford to wax philosophic. Then I can consider why I think ultimately this is a result of America inheriting the UK’s bullsh!t - and willingly doing it.
I just keep thinking of the Carthaginians and all the trouble they cause us. No wait, they don’t because there AREN’T any more Carthaginians…
Personally I agreed with V. Putin - Saddam was an @ss and a danger, but at least he wasn’t a Muslim fanatic - he disliked them as much as we did.
all this begs the question…
How can you have any putin if you dont eat your meat?
it’s better than ass marinade
Monkeyslap, at some point, it ceases to be UK’s bull**** anymore, and it becomes our bull****, with our own spin on it.
Really, I’m not saying to consider anyone’s view. I’m saying that I think the present tactic is inane because of our very nature as a country, as you alluded before. In order to do what you are inferring, we would not only need to take Iraq and make it truly ours/friendly to an extreme, but then we would need to force fundamental changes in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. and considering our involvement in Israel, the only way I see this happening is by force, except I don’t see it, because we as a nation don’t function that way. Perhaps the WWII generation or their like, a group who actually benefitted greatly from joining the military, where joining meant three square and opportunity, neither of which they necessarily would have gotten without; but the Americans you have today are a different people, with different advantages and disadvantages. To make a plan that requires an army you cannot hope to form is not good planning.
I really hope I’m incorrect about the planning, but it really, in some ways, seems like that’s the plan- make a war that requires something we don’t have. That doesn’t lead to victory.
And as far as hate toward us, I agree that’s a problem, but again, I never said “understand them” other than my comment about understanding the viewpoint of their religion, which someone has to in order to find ways to force diplomacy if the opportunity presents itself and/or conduct economic warfare in a muslim environment, which is a major off topic from the Iraqi issue, imo. Soldiers need not understand the enemies culture, spies and planners must.
Again, if it were primarily about terrorism, we wouldn’t be invading Iraq, we’d be invading another middle eastern country, unless Iraq is just a staging point to reach bigger fish, in which case we’re idiots for not engaging more allies to the task, because we cannot do it with just us and the UK, because we’re not what we once were, nor should we be.
Sorry monkey, didn’t see your last post. I follow. Hussein’s government did have that advantage for us, and was stable. That’s why it seems to me that this either has nothing to do with muslim terrorists, or is part of a larger plan that involves the sudden resurrection of the WWII Americans. Which would be okay, except my grandfather would be pretty ****ed to have his rest disturbed by a republican.
Poop is sexy
Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
Poop is sexy
That belongs on LUE.
Fuck that you racist! Don’t talk down the poop mutherfucker
bush is an assbiting war-monger who is killing America’s reputation. We went from the protectors of the world to well-funded terrorists. He’s wasted billions and billions of dollars on 2 seperate wars that did not produce what he promised:
- Osama Bin Laden
- Saddam Hussien
If neither were apprehended, then what the fuck were we fighting for? And why do I have to pay for this fine-tuned Fuck-up’s war? Because of this shitbird, I have to pay more for school and earn less. All the Clinton and bush comparisons are irrelivant. Clinton didn’t plunge our country into debt, he didn’t needlessly start wars, and he didn’t cheat (as bad?) to get into office.
Everyone sing it together.
(to the tune of “Proud to be an American”)
I’m ashamed to be an American.
In a land that was built by slaves.
And I won’t forget the men who fight
in a richman’s war.
so I shamefully sit down
and pray for a better day.
when bush is outta office.
and we can mend our broken ties
GOD HELP THE USA!