# My take on the state of Kung Fu
**URL:** https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143
**Category:** Kung Fu Forum
**Created:** [March 14, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143 "2007-03-14T04:01:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/61 "2007-03-15T15:44:36Z")
[QUOTE=Infrazael;745641]Yes, but it wasn’t my idea, or my Sifu’s, or anyone else’s for him TO BE doing forms most of the time? I sure as hell wasn’t. I’ve even went through “form withdrawals” where I refused to do forms at all . . . . then I realized that my CLF was incomplete and was falling apart without the forms, so I’m back to practicing them.
I don’t see anything wrong with my approach? It works for me. However said that anyone FORCED Fu-Pow to do forms 90% of the time?[/QUOTE]
interesting… out of curiosity, how do you feel about your muay thai, seeing that it has no forms?
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### Author:  [@Eddie](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Eddie)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/62 "2007-03-15T15:48:35Z")
ai yai yai, this topic seems to have gone the full circle. We back on arguing forms…
:eek:
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### Author:  [@Royal\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Royal_Dragon)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/63 "2007-03-15T15:51:13Z")
If we have the tools, and we didnt use them, its our own fault. Dont blame the style/ sifu.
Reply]
I can agree on this. For example, if the Sifu offered seperate forms, and sparring classes, and he had the option to choose, and only went to the forms classes. In THAT case, it’s HIS fault he can’t fight, not the Sifu.
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### Author:  [@Infrazael](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Infrazael)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/64 "2007-03-15T15:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=SevenStar;745647]interesting… out of curiosity, how do you feel about your muay thai, seeing that it has no forms?[/QUOTE]
I really enjoy it, however the fundamentals if Muay Thai are different than most of the stuff I learned in CLF. Because I was taught initially without forms, there has never been a need to learn forms of any kind.
However, practicing forms with CLF helps me with my overall structure. I believe that if I learned Muay Boran, I would be more than happy to practice the forms. Once again, comparing a pure ring sport to a CMA is like apples to oranges.
SevenStar, I never directed any negative posts towards you. I’m sorry if it came out that way. 🙂
CLF is missing several things which I was interested in, and I am more than happy to point out.
1. Ring Fighting Strategies. My Sifu never really did extensive ring fighting. Therefore, we didn’t train for the ring most of the time. Sparring ranged from medium to heavy contact usually.
2. Sifu didn’t have that much students. I only had a few regular partners to spar against, therefore I wanted to go and spar MORE people. Nothing wrong with that I think.
3. I wanted to learn Muay Thai, because I thought it was cool. I am still enjoying it very much; if I was gonna learn a ring art and that’s it it would be this.
4. I am always open minded, and I do not think CLF is the be-all end-all of fighting whatsoever. I know MMA guys dominate the current MA world, and I wanted to experience first hand why and feel their level of training, and work it into my CLF and vice-versa.
Regards,
Miluo
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### Author:  [@Royal\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Royal_Dragon)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/65 "2007-03-15T15:57:26Z")
I see the post you were replying to now. I think what he may be getting at is how do you know your clf teacher is teaching you to fight with the style? he’s saying that you felt the need to go to mma for more exposure and greater opportunity to spar. that beoing the case, it would seem that something is missing combat wise from the clf…
Reply]
That was my impression.
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### Author:  [@Eddie](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Eddie)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/66 "2007-03-15T15:58:46Z")
[QUOTE=Infrazael;745652]…CLF is missing several things which I was interested in, and I am more than happy to point out…[/QUOTE]
aaaahhh now I get what Royal Dragon was on about.
Miluo, the problems you raised was school issues and not style issues. Is it fair to say ‘CLF is missing several things’, where in reality it was the training?
There are many skilled CLF (and other traditonal arts) fighters out there.
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### Author:  [@Hishaam](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hishaam)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/67 "2007-03-15T16:36:04Z")
RoyalDragon, If i understand correctly what you say is that “CMA training” lost the urgency that it had in the old chinese military environment to produce effective fighters?
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### Author:  [@Royal\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Royal_Dragon)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/68 "2007-03-15T16:45:52Z")
I think that would be a good way to some up my view.
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### Author:  [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/69 "2007-03-15T17:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=Eddie;745607]If we suck at certain skills, its only because we didnt work at it. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with the ‘inadiquate and low quality of the training you recieved’. [/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. If you are training the wrong things with the wrong methods, it has nothing to do with how hard you work. You can train your @$$ off in becoming a ballroom dancer, but no matter how hard you work, it wont make you a good surfer.
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### Author:  [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/70 "2007-03-15T17:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Eddie;745656]There are many skilled CLF (and other traditonal arts) fighters out there.[/QUOTE]
Any video around to substantiate that claim?
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### Author:  [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/71 "2007-03-15T17:06:24Z")
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;745670]I think that would be a good way to some up my view.[/QUOTE]
Is this the same RD who previously was espousing the benefits of forms?
What happened?
Global warming?
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### Author:  [@Hishaam](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hishaam)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/72 "2007-03-15T17:06:54Z")
> I think that would be a good way to some up my view.
Thank you for sharing. Very interesting subject and posts.
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### Author:  [@Infrazael](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Infrazael)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/73 "2007-03-15T17:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=Eddie;745656]aaaahhh now I get what Royal Dragon was on about.
Miluo, the problems you raised was school issues and not style issues. Is it fair to say ‘CLF is missing several things’, where in reality it was the training?
There are many skilled CLF (and other traditonal arts) fighters out there.[/QUOTE]
My CLF training specifically. Not CLF as a whole. My school and my personal training at my Kwoon.
You misinterpret. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/74 "2007-03-15T17:10:29Z")
How effective are forms?
Here’s a way you can use a scientific approach to determining how effective your forms training is towards being able to apply it in a fighting environment.
Video yourself and/or your students going through forms. Next record yourself and/or them while doing full-contact sparring/fighting, without stopping and starting over if the encounter goes to the clinch or to the ground.
After you have done this, analyze the movements from both types of sessions and break them down into percentages in which the sparring/fighting looks like the forms movements. This will give you an effective measure of the percentage of effectiveness of your forms training.
I’m betting your full-contact fighting will have very little resemblance to your forms.
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### Author:  [@Infrazael](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Infrazael)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/75 "2007-03-15T17:13:19Z")
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;745676]Is this the same RD who previously was espousing the benefits of forms?
What happened?
Global warming?[/QUOTE]
No, remember the Virgin Mary came and offered herself to him.
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### Author:  [@Infrazael](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Infrazael)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/76 "2007-03-15T17:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;745679]Heres a way you can use a scientific approach to determining how effective your forms training is towards being able to apply it in a fighting environment.
Video yourself and/or your students going through forms. Next record yourself and/or them while doing full-contact sparring/fighting, without stopping and starting over if the encounter goes to the clinch or to the ground.
After you have done this, analyze the movements from both types of sessions and break them down into percentages in which the sparring/fighting looks like the forms movements. This will give you an effective measure of the percentage of effectiveness of your forms training.
Im betting your full-contact fighting will have very little resemblance to your forms.[/QUOTE]
That doesn’t mean I don’t find forms beneficial to my CLF training. Specifically CLF. Not MMA, not Thai Boxing, no Submission Wrestling.
Of course my fighting doesn’t look remotely like my forms. I understand the very nature of forms isn’t to help improve your fighting directly. And your point is?
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### Author:  [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/77 "2007-03-15T17:17:24Z")
[QUOTE=msg;745268]thats why mma is slopy i have sparred with mma guys one of my friends is a cage fighter .because of me practiceing my forms over and over again .wich makes my structure right and when he comes in and i can do a simple thing like the fighting \*\*\*\* form or horse ..its like hes hitting a brick wall my structure in alined and my chi is able to flow right because of forms so you can’t say that forms are just a way for a teacher to make money thats bull\*\*\*\* on your part[/QUOTE]
LOL… Yes, please do show us this awesome brick wall takedown repulsing method of yours.
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### Author:  [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/78 "2007-03-15T17:18:56Z")
[QUOTE=Infrazael;745683]I understand the very nature of forms isn’t to help improve your fighting directly. [/QUOTE]
Then what are they designed to do?
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### Author:  [@Black\_Jack\_II](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Black_Jack_II)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/79 "2007-03-15T17:20:31Z")
> thats why mma is slopy i have sparred with mma guys one of my friends is a cage fighter .because of me practiceing my forms over and over again .wich makes my structure right and when he comes in and i can do a simple thing like the fighting \*\*\*\* form or horse ..its like hes hitting a brick wall my structure in alined and my chi is able to flow right because of forms so you can’t say that forms are just a way for a teacher to make money thats bull\*\*\*\* on your part
I think this is a joke. Has to be.
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### Author:  [@Royal\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Royal_Dragon)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/my-take-on-the-state-of-kung-fu/39143/80 "2007-03-15T17:21:46Z")
Of course my fighting doesn’t look remotely like my forms. I understand the very nature of forms isn’t to help improve your fighting directly. And your point is?
Reply]
Your fighting SHOULD lookk like your forms!!! if it doesn’t, there is something very wrong!!
When you fight, the techniques in your forms should show though very clearly. You may only use short combo’s from the over all form, but they SHOULD be pretty much as they are in the form. If not, then your school sux.
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