Here’s a test:
Do you spar or roll at least four hours a week?
Do you train at least 15 hours a week?
Have you ever fought in a MMA competition?
If you answered no to any of those questions, you should never question the skills of anyone that has the sack to actually get in the ring and fight.
It is a bunch of coulda, woulda, shoulda. Fighting in style specific events is important, but it proves NOTHING with regards to mixed martial arts or street fighting skills. We have a guy that mauls everyone at BJJ tourneys. His guard is sick, but he knows that his game would result in a KO ala Thomas/Iha a couple of UFCs ago. He doesn’t fight mixed martial arts. Smart man. In the street, his skills would baffle all comers and unless he comes up against a really profecient MMA fighter, he would break him or leave him unconscious.
Cung le might be unstoppable in San Shou, but he probably knows that his scissor kick takedown leaves him in a neutral to negative position with regards to MMA fighting.
A question that Robert Smith answered in JAMA a few issues ago is “Who would you want with you in a street fight?”
My answer is a MMA fighter first. I don’t care if they specialize in strikng or grappling. They will understand how to win.
A BJJ only guy second.
A Judo only guy
My choice is based on the fact that these guys all train live in all three dimensions. They know from experience, The only knowledge that counts. The rest of you idiots are dancing or playing a very limiting game. Your knowledge is paper thin.
Some of the toughest Fighters in REAL life Fights I have seen were some of my fellow biking Buddies.
Not all had MA or any fighting training, but you don’t want to get on their wrong side.
Fighting in a ring and fighting in a street is VERY different.
While I respect the Guys in the UFC, Pride, etc for what they are doing. I doubt that they will have that much of an edge in a proper real life fight.
Yep, agree they guys are tough, but they still fight in a semi-sports environment.
In a street fight it is brutal and over before you actually know what really happened.
IME, both traditional MA and MMA training, will only get you so far in real fight.
Sorry, but I often feel that People look at the current MMA scene (Pride, UFC) as the latest magical Pill in fighting.
In the end it is the fighter that wins and not the styles/ranges he trained in.
Neither is better nor worse, just that too many People try to look for a quick fix solution rather than trying to find the MA that really suits them and their personality.
Match a Person with the right MA style, good Instructor and magical things will happen.
I’m 3rd generation Cheng Manching. I learned the form a few years back from Jane Faigao. I do it every day, twice a day, both directions. It doesn’t teach me jack about fighting. I learn sensitivity, balance, and focus.
When I apply the form sparring at my BJJ school, I learn a lot about fighting with Tai Chi Chuan. Unfortunately I know of only one other Tai Chi guy that will play hard. I’d rather try to apply the techniques to someone that first wants to throw me to the ground and submit me or render me unconscious. I like a challenge.
You are not investing in loss if you have nothing to lose.
Current favorite tai chi chuan techniques that work against bjj/mma guys in live sparring:
Rollback
Wave Hands in Clouds
Golden Rooster Stands on one leg
Step back Repulse Monkey
I have gotten mauled at least 100 times before my first success on each technique.
Yes, except not official MMA competition. Just as rough with challengers in the kwoon though.
Why do I need to roll 4 hours a week? Its fun, but I don’t have the human resources for that. Besides, the softer I get from tai chi, the faster I can win. Guys that are forcing everything are easy.
Who cares about MMA. All MA are mixed MA. Some are just more well blended. . “MMA” is like a protein drink thats not all the way blended. It will do the job, but it has chalky strange taste that is only gonna suit a few people.
The point is, do you train hard? Have you faught? Then the answer is yes. The world isn’t all MMA any more than its TKD.
Originally posted by 3D Man I’m 3rd generation Cheng Manching. I learned the form a few years back from Jane Faigao. I do it every day, twice a day, both directions. It doesn’t teach me jack about fighting. I learn sensitivity, balance, and focus.
Do you just do form training??
Or do you also do Push Hands, Single movement drills & sparring for your CMC Tai Chi??
If not of course you will be disappointed by it.
Guys that have fought regularly in the street are tough as nails, but I think that a guy with several years of MMA, BJJ, or Judo training could handle the street just fine. Best fighter might be a street fighter with MMA training?
I do not think a street brawler like Tank Abbot would have a prayer against any of the heavyweights in todays UFC or Pride…in the street or the ring. He would be toast.
You misunderstand my attitude towards Tai Chi Chuan. I love it, but I have found only one other person interested in actually playing hard. The overwhelming majority of Tai Chi student in the United States think it is standing yoga or something. My alternative is to try to figure out on my own and use it.
so unless i’ve played basketball at college level i’m not allowed to say “man Pheonix Suns are sucking ass tonight” ?
I agree it propably gives you more merit then the layman if you actually do compete in MMA, but if the MMA fanbase was limited to only those who compete it would never have lasted this long, and as long as there are fans there will be jock riders and haters.
No you can be a fan all you want, but unless you have actually fought, you are simply moving your lips. It doesn’t have to be at the college level either. A small show with regional fighters gives you the right to speak with authority. I think a intrastyle dojo match counts too. The question is do you train for real and do you have the sack to fight.
Yenhoi,
Not a troll, just someone you don’t agree with. Get over it… ****ant. A technique can be a punch, a kick, a throw, or god forbid…a strangle. Don’t limit yourself.
I don’t think they allow 17 year old gang members on PCP in MMA events. Nor is consumption of 13 beers in 2 hours before hand. If MMA events is your sort of thing then that’s great. But don’t go telling people who have dedicated more than half their life to training that they don’t have what it takes because they don’t participate in those events. What a load of horse pucky.
“It doesn’t teach me jack about fighting. I learn sensitivity, balance, and focus”
and this is not enough.
Why dose every one say things like “ overwhelming majority of Tai Chi student in the United States think it is standing yoga or something.” Instead of all the TC people that I have met where I live?
Here where I live the outlook on TC is very broad, the people practicing reflect this. Each has the wisdom to see and allow others to practice according to their needs and thoughts.
I think you would be surprised at the number of people who don’t fight in these contest but have very good TC skills. how can I say this? although free style push hands is not fighting it is a good indicator of ones ability to absorb and redirect force.
Many people that I have met who play TC and do kickboxing or something else have good power, speed and are quite strong but they don’t really have good TC ability outside of using TC techniques coupled with speed, power, and strength.
I would be careful about lumping all people playing TC here in the US in the same boat.
I actually kind of agree with you - if you haven’t done it then you aren’t really the best position to comment. However, I do think that a lot of people are intelligent enough to be able to make informed comment without having to step into the ring.
Apart from all that, I can see this topic sliding back into one of the good old arguments that pops up now and then :).
I just think that your statement that you shouldnt critisize those who do fight is wrong.