Im looking into visiting the local WC studio next week.
Im wondering if anyone could tell me anything that differentiates Moy Yat from
other lines and what is the general thoughts of Moy Yat within the WC community.
Thanks guys
RR
[QUOTE=Redrooster;767152]Im looking into visiting the local WC studio next week.
Im wondering if anyone could tell me anything that differentiates Moy Yat from
other lines and what is the general thoughts of Moy Yat within the WC community.
Thanks guys
RR[/QUOTE]
Just like every other lineage, I’m sure the exercises, concepts, etc, will be a little different (NOTE: not better or worse). You will see great similarities and great differences.
I would give the school a call ahead of time, just to make sure you will be able to attend at a time to see what you are interested in seeing.
-Levi
[QUOTE=Redrooster;767152]Im wondering if anyone could tell me anything that differentiates Moy Yat from other lines[/QUOTE]
What makes Moy Yat different?
Nothing.
However, it seems like a lot of people ask that question more of him than they do of others. I guess you could say (in a way) this makes him “different”.
Which “local WC studio” is the one you are going to visit?
[QUOTE=Redrooster;767152]Im looking into visiting the local WC studio next week.
Im wondering if anyone could tell me anything that differentiates Moy Yat from
other lines and what is the general thoughts of Moy Yat within the WC community.
Thanks guys
RR[/QUOTE]
Moy Yat was rather tall much taller than most other Sifu from Hong Kong … 
Also he was one of the few WCK Sifu to produce very high quality pracitioners that actually had a clue and are very talented.
Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5p-YpR2JuQ
You won’t get much better WCK, anywhere.. IMNSHO… 
Moy Yat also did his best to pass the system as it was passed to him by Ip…
Having trained at the school for years when he was alive I can attest that the best folks to come out of that school are still among the best I have ever seen anywhere…
YungChun sez:
Also he was one of the few WCK Sifu to produce very high quality pracitioners that actually had a clue and are very talented.
Case in point:
You won’t get much better WCK, anywhere.. IMNSHO…
Anywhere? Wow-a philadelphia survey or story no doubt!! <G>
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=YungChun;767507]Moy Yat was rather tall much taller than most other Sifu from Hong Kong …
Also he was one of the few WCK Sifu to produce very high quality pracitioners that actually had a clue and are very talented.
Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5p-YpR2JuQ
You won’t get much better WCK, anywhere.. IMNSHO…
.[/QUOTE]
I make no comment on whether he is good or not but there is nothing special about the clip you posted…just another generic performance of CK no better or worse than any of the other clips on the net.
Yung Chun,
Ha! Ha! Ha! :rolleyes:
Man, you’re funny. I remember Pete Pajii (the man in the vid) when he first joined and was learning the first section of SLT - some 25 years ago or so.
Let me say some things about Moy Yat - as someone who trained with directly him for 8 years and who started that training literally 32 years ago (May of 1975).
Yes…he was a purist who tried to teach what he learned from Yip Man (and from his sihings) exactly as it was given to him.
But the fact is that his best students BECAME GOOD precisely because they were:
1- SELF MOTIVATED
2- GOOD NATURAL FIGHTERS/ALREADY EXPERIENCED IN OTHER FIGHTING ARTS…to begin with.
Because Moy Yat spent about 90 of his time while in the 4 walls of his school NOT TEACHING.
He was infinitely more concerned with his artwork than he was in training people and running classes.
FURTHERMORE…The wing chun system he taught was so conservative in its approach to fighting that the only good fighters I know of to come out of his school understood the importance of working “other things” into their own particular style of fighting and training.
So your claims are very amusing to me, quite frankly.
Moy Yat was good for what he did; but he wasn’t really a fighter and he certainly didn’t make it his business to train people to fight…in fact…he even scorned the whole idea of staying in shape…stretching, pushups, situps, aerobics, punching mitts or kicking shields to develop power and timing, hard contact sparring with protective gear, etc.
It actually annoyed him when he saw people (ie.- me, for example) doing these kinds of things while in the school.
He expected you to come in, don’t ask him questions…go spend a lot of time playing the forms, throw punches in the air, (and perhaps punch the wallbag a little bit)…throw some front heel kicks in the air, do lots of chi sao with the other students (and save 99% of your questions for your sihings)…do some wooden dummy if you were up to do it (which could take a LONG TIME TO GET TO)…a little light-to-moderate sparring once in awhile perhaps - if you were a senior student, (and NEVER with any gloves or headgear or anything else)…and that’s it.
Then it was time to take him to dinner and go home. 
[QUOTE=YungChun;767507]
Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5p-YpR2JuQ
You won’t get much better WCK, anywhere.. IMNSHO… :D[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about getting better WCK anywhere, but I do know that form has nothing to do with fighting.
[QUOTE=Nick Forrer;767546]just another generic performance of CK no better or worse than any of the other clips on the net.[/QUOTE]
Of course, all form executions are equal, none better than another.. Just as all training is equal, and all chi sao, sparring and fighting is equal.. Until one person is knocked the F#@#@$ out, that is…
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;767578]
1- SELF MOTIVATED
2- GOOD NATURAL FIGHTERS/ALREADY EXPERIENCED IN OTHER FIGHTING ARTS…to begin with.
Because Moy Yat spent about 90 of his time while in the 4 walls of his school NOT TEACHING.
He was infinitely more concerned with his artwork than he was in training people and running classes.
[/quote]
I can’t comment on what he was most concerned with but the reality is that students in any school who are NOT self motivated will get no where fast..
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;767578]
FURTHERMORE…The wing chun system he taught was so conservative in its approach to fighting that the only good fighters I know of to come out of his school understood the importance of working “other things” into their own particular style of fighting and training.
[/quote]
Again this is what I call taking personal responsibility for your training.. The best of the best he produced are WCK folks not JKD folks who do many different arts..
I realize also that the school over the course of his career was a work in progress.. Things no doubt got better over time as did the skills and understanding of his students… Nevertheless the best WCK folks I have seen, my Sihings are the best I have seen anywhere and I have seen many, trained with many and shuttered at many.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;767578]
It actually annoyed him when he saw people (ie.- me, for example) doing these kinds of things while in the school.
He expected you to come in, don’t ask him questions…go spend a lot of time playing the forms, throw punches in the air, (and perhaps punch the wallbag a little bit)[/QUOTE]
We know you don’t care for the traditional training but hey that’s what Ip taught too… That’s WCK at that time and place.. As I said later on he did come to accept–on the advice of Mickey additional modern training supplements…
As far as asking questions… I had no problems asking him questions and Sifu had no problem answering any question I put to him.. But then he also had no problem shaking my hand either… 
Things didn’t stand still when you left Victor they just got better.. Use of equipment and drills, which was pushed by Mickey after you left; and the best and most knowledgeable WCK training and guidance from seniors in the know didn’t pop out of thin air.. In my book he had the knowledge and ability to pass on this knowledge.. Now to whom and why he passed it is another issue, but it was there..
This is apparent in the skills that exist today in folks like William, Mickey, Miguel, Pete, and on and on, IMO these folks are world class WCK folks, some of the best the system has to offer.. Don’t agree? Makes no difference to me and does not change my experience and opinion on the matter.. Anyone who wishes to confirm should go check out those folks..
Yung Chun:
I recall now that you once told me in a private message that Mickey Chan had some influence on Moy Yat after I left and John Cheng (Moy 4) left - as regards updating some training methods, (ie.- punching bag/mitts/kicking shields, etc.).
Let me expound a bit on this and then I have some questions for you, Yung Chun.
Mickey was well aware (after the fact) that John and I had spent about 6 months training privately using protective gear, a more JKD-like footwork, and a contact sparring/drilling regimen that tried to marry Bruce Lee’s more long range concepts and the infight we were learning from Moy Yat…
and Mickey was also aware how that affected Dan Inosanto’s decision to pay Moy Yat’s planefare to California (since John took the training we did privately and walked into Inosanto’s school and used it while working out with the JKD guys for a week in 1979).
Mickey was very impressed with all that - since he had much respect for John’s skills…which took a major leap forward after I suggested to John that we work out privately with all those training methods that Moy Yat had forbid within the school at that time.
And by the time I left in May, 1983, John rarely ever showed up to train at the school anymore (his life circumstances had changed)…so now it was solely up to Mickey to lead the way as the most senior sihing (the three of us were head-and-shoulders ahead of the other students in the school at that time).
But Mickey had a very strong relationship with Moy Yat - who Mickey looked upon almost like the father that he never had. And Mickey’s financial support of the school was legendary; ie.- whenever funds were needed for one of Moy Yat’s many pet art projects, or for Moy Yat’s family, (or just to pay the stiff NYC school rent) - Mickey was always the one who reached first and deepest into his pocket.
But again, Moy Yat was always very conservative in his approach to teaching wing chun.
So my questions are as follows: To your knowledge, what was the extent of the “changes” to the training curriculum? For example, was there headgear and gloves used to spar full (or close-to-full) contact? If so, how often? Any other gear used (ie.- chest protector, shin and knee pads, etc.)? Was one person using boxing, kickboxing, karate, JKD, or TKD technique while the other guy just used wing chun? Or was the sparring just basically wing chun vs. wing chun?
I know that Mickey was interested in these things - so I’m curious as to how far he was able to get Moy Yat’s permission to take it?
In fact, I recall once - just once - after he was told by John of our private sessions, that Moy Yat wanted to see how/what John and I were training/sparring/doing - and we showed him. And Mickey was there to see it.
Interestingly enough, though…after this (and after everything went wrong between Moy Yat and Dan Inosanto)…John stopped training privately with me BECAUSE MOY YAT TOLD HIM TO STOP.
So I’m curious as to how far Mickey was able to take things after John and I left - given Moy Yat’s predisposition?
Victor,
I am not fully aware of everything that was done.. Esp with the SSA. For the most part Mickey just broke out the equipment when he was therewhen sifu was occupied in the back.. hihihih. And this period did not last forever, finally Mickey started showing up less, perhaps as he put more time in with his own group not sure what year that would be…
I also recall at that time Mickey was very much working on his own things too and he would often have me or others work with him on whatever that was. I had really good karate kicks at that time and he would have me attacking him with them for as long as I could keep it up… He would also have me gear up and then do attacks drills and try to work on his power,
release, footwork, etc…
I don’t recall any of what I would call full contact sparring as I know it.. There were drills with full/hard contact, most often broken down into areas like dealing with kicks and kicking as well as striking drills using the vests, shield and leg armor.. Whipping punches on the focus glove, Pete was scary with those.. And so on, typical equipment drills, different kinds of attacks and methods depeding on who had trained what, etc.. We also used leg armor and kicking drills were done and served as a base for sticking legs stuff…
And I’ll tell you most of the students I recall would have preferred to have been left to their chi sao and not had to exert themselves… It’s a different kind of mentality than many other schools like in karate. This was a different animal to me..
When I chose to look for a WCK school, at that time, my goal was to experience what Bruce had.. I found myself in a karate school where there was basically full contact sparring and I was getting my azz kicked too often.. Yet those karate folks couldn’t give me any kind of strategy to use to improve, and would even ask why I was using a karate block in sparring–well that’s because it’s what they trained there–for Christ’s sake..
Why train a block that we shouldn’t use? I really had issues with this kind of mentality and I still harass those types… But I had read up on Bruce and I found the stuff fascinating so.. I decided I wanted to experience what he did, or as close as possible.. In the end I did get what I wanted because to me going down to the Chinatown school, and the way Sifu taught, etc, <which I adopted!> I think I really did get close to experiencing what Bruce had and where he was coming from–quality classical WCK training, which is what I came for in the first place..
We also trained the classical stuff pretty hard.. We would often use full to near full contact in Chi Sao without pads and hit in the face/neck too, sooo to some extent even the classical training could get rough…
So, you see on the one hand you had the hard sparring but no pathand in the other you have no really hard sparring until later on but you had a path… So, you can’t win for losing.. To me it was fine though because there was so much new stuff to learn—you know so I was busy trying to pick it up At the time I was honestly more interested in the Chi Sao and other WCK things I was not up to yet. I still had sparring partners left over from karate and most of the stuff I learned at the school could be tested on them. So while in the school I was more interested in material presented as is…although I wanted more than I could get… … Other more serious folks would do much the same or compete to further their training.
I feel you though and understand what you mean in terms of well rounded training…Something I think that is happening more now in all the families as a result of other modern changes in TMA, MMA, etc…
I also appreciate the fact that some folks don’t want to train full contact and that’s fine… When I had my little group I told them they could sparr full contact, med, light contact, or not at all.. It’s up to them… TMA like this gives folks the option of how hard to train.. The harder you train the better the results but no one need take it past where they are comfortable or want to be..
HTH
Jim
See what I mean Redrooster? Nothing at all is different.
:rolleyes:
(You guys are bush league when it comes to trolling, flaming, and nutriding.)
RedRooster
It all depends on what the Sifu at this place took from his/her training. Like any other lineage or Martial Arts camps, there are good and bad Sifu’s under the single “tree”. There really is no such thing as someone’s ability being based solely on who they trained under. Hence, the history lesson about Sigung may or may not be relative. My Sifu, as well as other Moy Yat Sifus, have acknowledged that the training must evolve with whatever your goals and purposes are. So even if there are Sifu’s in the Moy Yat family that do not put on focus mitts and head gear, there are some that do.
If there is anything unique about our family, it is what we refer to as Kung Fu life (some other families have this as well, but it is typically not a prominant part of being in the school). The Kung Fu life means that lessons may be learned outside of the Mo Kwoon. That often times “hanging out” with the Sifu, and even good Sihings, can be like an apprentice hanging out with a master.
Other than that, your approach should be to evaluate the Sifu, their students, and their school based on his/her presentation and whether their program meets your needs.
Good Luck with your kung Fu…
“If there is anything unique about our family, it is what we refer to as Kung Fu life (some other families have this as well, but it is typically not a prominant part of being in the school). The Kung Fu life means that lessons may be learned outside of the Mo Kwoon. That often times “hanging out” with the Sifu, and even good Sihings, can be like an apprentice hanging out with a master.” (Lindley)
***I’LL TELL YOU a funny story in this regard, concerning Moy Yat and myself. I was over his apartment one day for lunch, and he cooked some shrimp and rice. It was just the two of us. And he decided to teach me a lesson because I was eating too many shrimp and not enough rice - if you get my meaning.
Okay…well there was still about 15 shrimp left on the plate when he said, “Okay, that’s enough. Lunch is over.” And instead of taking the extra shrimp, wrapping them up, and putting them in the refrigerator - he purposely took them and through them in the garbage pail right in front of me - even though he knew I still wanted more!!! :eek:
What a funny dude he could be! 
But it was a good lesson, as it really got me thinkin’. :rolleyes: