Mastery of Mind, Body and Spirit

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

I like asking people why they take the martial arts. I have discovered that one gets from the martial arts what he/she takes. Meaning, you will only get what you want from taking a martial art. Some take it for self defense, some even think that self defense is all the martial arts are about. Some take it for physical fitness. While all these are good and you will learn this, there is so much more to the martial arts (as I’m sure you all know).

Beyond that there is becomming a better human being in almost every way. Then there is having the spirit of a warrior and the mind of a wise man. A fighting spirit controlled by self discipline.

Then there is the curriculum that martial arts teach. I have a philosophy. If there are any two true martial artists out there, that take completely different styles (aikido and tae kwon do for instance), then given enough time, they will eventually each know the same things. In the end all arts become one. My point is that we should not dismiss any style and not think of any style as superior or inferior. Our goal should be to learn all.

This also goes for weapons and barehanded. We should not limit ourselves to just one. We should experience the equal wonders of both.

Comments?

2

Not to come off cynical, but perhaps you are over-analyzing?

The martial arts are a form on the road to formlessness.

3

No, that is exactly the kind of discussing I want to hear.

4

However, IMO, I believe that there are people who take martial arts just for self defense when I think the martial arts are much more. Becoming a martial artist is becomming a better person, that is what I believe.

5

Health…
Think about it. If you say that you take MA for self defence, then you are taking it for health reasons. You get beat up, you are not in as good of health as you were. Spirituality, this is mental health, you do get a work out (or should at least) this is fitness, which usually improves health. Oh, and not to mention chi flow.

6

Yes, good point.

7

I disagree and think that the all roads lead to the same path martial philosophy is very overrated and not true.

Different martial systems have different philosophies, different overall life agendas, different psychological outlooks and different goals towards personal survival.

Beyond those aspects alone are the personal aspects of the man or women training in those methods and what their personal agendas may be.

Aikido is not Bando, Pa Kua is not TKD, Shorin-Ryu Karate is not Shuai Chaio, Tai Chi Ch’uan is not Western Military Combatives and so on and so on.

Each has it’s own essentials of unarmed combat, tactical development and signature taste. These imbedded principles have a certain cause and effect on the person training in these systems, both in how they attack and defend and how they percieve unarmed combat in all its formats.

I research martial studies for self defense and the sheer love of learning.

Nothing more and nothing less.

I will be wise when the time comes, other than that, I just have time to enjoy what is around me.

8

Well said.

9

It’s not just martial arts, it’s life that you refer to. A lot of what you get out of it has to do with what you bring to it, plus a willingness to experiment.
However, I don’t think there is anything the matter with having a purpose for doing something and not caring much for other aspects. Mr. Nunchaku, you might see it as missing out; someone else might see it as being expedient or satisfying an immediate need to meet challenges in enironment or self. The person is doing what is necessary for that time according to vision, need, and ability. There is the possibility that a person might discover something wonderful in self and the arts via training and pursue it, but still not want to experience every weapon or form. I agree with Nexus. And, with that state of mind, all the forms and weapons which you would want to experience without limit, might not be necessary (and possible) for a person with that mindset to study, at no loss to them really. Thinking that way does not imply that a person would not want to learn a system, by leaves room for an equally serious student who does not.

Martial arts do not guarantee that one will become a better human being. In fact, I don’t even think that should be the aim. I think the aim should be to be most truly yourself.
First you have to find that out before trying to fit into a mold, deciding whether you want to fit into it. Some of these molds have very many rules and can be too controlling in my view. The simple rules you mention, I believe in another post, are okay, but I don’t like the repeated recitation conditioning. Frankly, I don’t think it works except to show a person that even if they don’t feel a certain way, they sure know how to act the part. Even if the person is sincere, I am not in favor of this sort of programming.

Certain martial arts, ones that have a common foundation – for instance, those that concentrate on the harnessing of chi and mind/spirit in an esoteric way – are headed to the same place, formlessness. Fighting systems that do not attend to this in the same way or at all, are still martial arts, but lead elsewhere, though a person might find formlessness in actual practice at a high level. All these people will not necessarily know the same things in the same way. I can see how you might think that all arts become one on some level. I have thought that way myself, especially in response to the competition amongst them for superiority. I’ve got a “Yes, but…” response to that I can’t explain. Part of that is wondering if there is more than one “place” to go to, even in formlessness.

I think our goal should be to learn the essence of what a martial art is from the points of view that are correct for the person studying. This is very difficult to do. Where some students find themselves chasing their tails because there is no intent to give the systematic instruction that leads there to the degree that there was in the past.

I think one should follow heart and body in terms of study. What is possible or necessary for one person is not for another.

Cody

10

I understand what you mean Mr Nunchaku but when I think about it (And I was thinking about this decades ago) Any art can make a person better,you could learn painting,cooking…whatever and gain from it! But think about the multitudes of jerks and morons we find in all human activities! Martial arts possess a very good share of these guys and most of the times ,they occupy high profile positions in well known organisations.Some can fight for sure but…You know what I mean?..It’s a shame some of them (a lot actually) are playing Guru or enlighted or whatever and are dominating and manipulating others with false claims of making their students Jedilike superhuman beings.
I believe that life only can make someone better.It only depends on how you use it!:wink:
BTW, I like what you bring to the forum Mr Nunchaku!..Don’t stop :slight_smile: :wink:

11

I don’t know, anymore, what the martial arts are for. It’s a part of me, now, as much as my arms and legs are a part of me. I used to have definitions up the hilt about martial arts. Now, I find I can’t define it as I can’t define my arm in that way. What is my arm for? Well, it has all these endless purposes, but mainly, it’s just attached to my body so it’s there to be used or not.

Did that make sense?

Robin

12

It did to me Robin!:wink:

13

I’m not sure if I’m an anomaly or not, but I can’t tell you why I like the martial arts. I just do. I’ve been able to meet people and go places and do things that I wouldn’t think that I’d be able to do because of the martial arts, but it’s not really a spiritual thing at all for me. I don’t give too much thought to the esoteric aspects of the martial arts, and I often believe that they do more harm than good for the martial artist and art. I don’t think that it’s right to let people live in fantasy, nor do I believe that it’s possible to train a person to perform miracles. Martial arts are martial arts. Sometimes it’s for the thrill, the emotion, and exhiliration of being pushed to the limit and then surpassing it. Sometimes it’s the pure joy of being free in motion. And, yes, sometimes it’s even for the pain of failure, the physical shock of being hit, the reality of existense.

You can’t teach immortality or how to focus beams of industrictibility because, like it or not, we’re only human. You can’t even teach a person to be good, all you can do is be the best that you can be and be an example for others to follow.

My 2 cents.

14

Thank you everyone for such great responses. I guess the martial arts and morality are two different aspects of life, but for me they go together. I agree that everyone has different goals though. Again thanks for the replies.

15

Self preservation, self cultivation, and self realization

Self preservation, self cultivation, and self realization…
And then the ability for these attributes to enrichen and protect others.
People learn arts for many different reasons; as long as it makes the quality of their own life, as well as other’s better, I’m all for it whatever the reason or style.

16

Yeah

I think there is more to MA’s than just the physical side.

By overcoming trials you learn to better yourself. A diamond can’t be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials.

I find relaxation ,health, peace and a better sense of life thru my Kung-Fu and hope that others can feel the same way too. Maybe its just me, but I hope not.

17

I think morality/ethics should be taught alongside martial arts. Whether it is a side-effect of MA training is debatable.

18

"Aikido is not Bando, Pa Kua is not TKD, Shorin-Ryu Karate is not Shuai Chaio, Tai Chi Ch’uan is not Western Military Combatives and so on and so on. "

Both Aikido and Bando look to resolve the situation decisively.

Pa Kua and TKD study and have a basis in directness.

Shuia Chiao isn’t mixed with any other Martial art to make it better.

T’ai Chi Ch’uan and Western Military Combatives quickly dispatches the objective(opponent).

And so on.

19

All arts may have come from the background of self preservation but just because that is a common goal does not make the path or the approach in that goal the same.

Aikido has a much different outlook than the tribal arts of Burmese Bando.

They have much different psychological takes on combatives and much different physical attribute training, they both gear themselves towards different tactics in getting the job done, according to what they percieve as getting the job done, which in the end equates them to not being the same art.

Pa Kua and TKD are like night in day in training parameters and in functional operations, they are geared towards different ranges, methods and historical backgrounds, again making them much different arts.

Tai Chi Ch’aun and Western Military Combatives may both have the goal of taking out the attacker as soon as possible but so does every other art so that point is kinda mute, the real point is that their training guidlines, delivery systems and mental outlooks are again different, thus again making them different arts.

As for the Shuai Chaio comment, what makes you think that Shuai Chaio is a static system that has not evolved and adapted other techniques, principles, and training tools into its forumla over its many years of growth to make it a better system???

The reason that it may be around so long and considered by the CMA crowd to be so good is because of its ability to grow.

Whatever the case of your point, I stand fast that all arts are not the same arts, each has its own encyclopedia of history which in turm shapes the base format for its students and their evolution towards combat both in mental and physical principles.

That is like saying that at the end a TKD master will be able to do the same things a BJJ master would.

20

>“Tai Chi Ch’aun and Western Military Combatives may both have the goal of taking out the attacker as soon as possible but so does every other art so that point is kinda mute, the real point is that their training guidlines, delivery systems and mental outlooks are again different, thus again making them different arts”<

Could you please outline and describe what you believe to be the differences between TCC’s and WMC’s “training guidlelines, delivery systems and mental outlooks”?

Just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.