# Mas Oyama **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [November 21, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522 "2002-11-21T08:05:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FatherDog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fatherdog/32/294_2.png) [@FatherDog](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/FatherDog)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/21 "2002-11-22T16:34:40Z")
> Originally posted by Stranger > Thanks for clearing that up. I never knew that Gotch worked outside of the circle of fighters that would begin the Pancrase cicuit. It’s my understanding that Gotch worked with several of Japan’s wrestling promotions, teaching them the pro style. Since shootwrestling drew heavily on the stiff workers of the Japanese pro style in its nascent form, its grappling was initially influenced primarily by Gotch’s techniques. > Maybe the native influence of judo, Victor Koga’s SAMBO, and the incorporation of various striking arts led to the “30 seconds only on the ground” rule of early Japanese shoot. I don’t know. I’m just glad that they spend more time on the ground now days, than they did in the early days of the sport. (more time= less referee interference= more reality) Myself, I like the early Pride rules; the fighters stay on the ground as long as there’s activity occurring; then they get stood up. It allows grapplers to still maintain ground control for long periods of time as long as they’re active about it, and makes for more exciting fights. Even as a grappling enthusiast, the “lay and pray” fights don’t exactly fill me with joy. > As a NJ resident, I have to keep up on the martial arts scene, particularly things as cool as a catch school. Openmat is really a general martial arts school; there are Judo classes, BJJ classes, Thai classes, shootwrestling classes, capoeira classes, and openmats where everyone and anyone can come and roll. I train Catch specifically with Glenn because it’s what I found best suited for me. Always nice to see another Jersey boy. Where do you train Systema? I’d been looking into that early on, but never really found a place near enough to me. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Stranger](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Stranger)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/22 "2002-11-22T19:45:08Z")
Fatherdog, I actually spend about 10 months of the year in VA and July and August in NJ. I live down south in AC. I keep NJ as my primary residence even though I spend most time down here in Arlington. So my Systema instructor is Serafim Yevsukov and he is based out of the DC area. If you want Systema in NJ, check out Alex Wilkie in Bridgewater, NJ or Guy Velella in Closter, NJ. Alex frequently has seminars, but be forewarned, these outdoor camps can cater to SWAT, state troopers, military personnel, body guards, bounty hunters, and SOF wannabes in addition to Vlad’s regulars. The instruction can deviate quit a bit from acceptable self-defense (ie. CQB, abseiling, combative driving, sentry takedowns, stealth movement, kidnapping/arresting techniques, etc.). It is kind of ‘paramilitary’. If you are uncomfortable about that type of instruction I suggest you find one of the indoor seminars run by Alex or in NYC at Chau’s Martial Art (they teach SAMBO there too with Alex Barakov [sp?]). Dave Rusin of AMERROSS runs a school in Princeton. I am not suggesting that Vlad’s organization and ROSS teach the same thing; I just wanted to present all options in the realm of RMA that I know of in the NJ area. ---
**Author:** ![FatherDog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fatherdog/32/294_2.png) [@FatherDog](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/FatherDog)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/23 "2002-11-22T20:19:27Z")
> Originally posted by Stranger > I actually spend about 10 months of the year in VA and July and August in NJ. I live down south in AC. Ah, okay. That’s pretty far south of me, but my brother and sister go to Stockton College down there. > If you want Systema in NJ, check out Alex Wilkie in Bridgewater, NJ or Guy Velella in Closter, NJ. > Alex frequently has seminars, but be forewarned, the outdoor camps cater to SWAT, state troopers, military personnel, body guards, bounty hunters, and SOF wannabes in addition to Vlad’s regulars. The instruction can deviate quit a bit from acceptable self-defense (ie. CQB, abseiling, combative driving, sentry takedowns, stealth movement, kidnapping/arresting techniques, etc.). It is kind of ‘paramilitary’. If you are uncomfortable about that type of instruction I suggest you find one of the indoor seminars run by Alex or in NYC at Chau’s Martial Art (they teach SAMBO there too with Alex Barakov [sp?]). > Within our organization, Oleg Taktarov is the primary SAMBO instructor. Paramilitary training doesn’t make me uncomfortable, but it’s not really where my interest lies. Anyway, I’m pretty committed to Catch right now; I was just curious, because I hadn’t really found much RMA in NJ when I was looking. > Dave Rusin of AMERROSS runs a school in Princeton. > I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT VLAD’S ORGANIZATION AND ROSS TEACH THE SAME THING; I just wanted to present all options in the realm of RMA that I know of in the NJ area. Really, there’s a ROSS school in Princeton? I wonder how I missed that… eh, I’m vaguely aware of the difference between ROSS stuff and other Sambo stuff; Sonnon posts regularly on the CACC forum I frequent. It’s interesting stuff, but not what I’m into training right now. Thanks for the info, though. Let me know if you’re ever up in NJ and want to roll; I’ve never crossed hands with an RMA practitioner. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Stranger](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Stranger)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/24 "2002-11-22T20:54:17Z")
“Let me know if you’re ever up in NJ and want to roll; I’ve never crossed hands with an RMA practitioner.” I’d love to, with nothing but respect for your style. I’d hope to learn from it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Jamieson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/david_jamieson/32/19_2.png) [@David\_Jamieson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/David_Jamieson)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/25 "2002-11-23T00:28:09Z")
a friend of mine who is an excelent kyokushin stylist has a site with everything you can want to knwo about the style and it’s founder Mas Oyama. you can get to it by going to: [http://www.diegobeltran.com](http://www.diegobeltran.com) In my opinion, Kyokushin Kai Karate is the “best” karate you can study if you are gonna study Karate in modern context. THis is only my opinion, I have studied Karate and no offense intended for those who practice whatever you practice. peace ---
**Author:** ![omegapoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@omegapoint](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/omegapoint)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:50am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/26 "2002-11-23T08:50:56Z")
> Originally posted by Kung Lek > [B]In my opinion, Kyokushin Kai Karate is the “best” karate you can study if you are gonna study Karate in modern context. THis is only my opinion, I have studied Karate and no offense intended for those who practice whatever you practice. peace [/B] Alaikum Asalaam! BTW what style(s) of karate did you study (for 4 years)? For commercial purposes, like selling “Inside Kung-Fu” mags, you are correct. Kyokushinkai (and K1) is the best sport karate there is. There are styles out there which will teach you kickboxing skills and self-defense. There are styles out there that very few folks have a clue about. Like anything, just because it’s popular doesn’t make it the “best”. In Okinawa and on Japan we sparred with many different ryuha (subsystems). The kyokushin guys weren’t any better than the Shotokan dudes. In fact they fought basically the same way; Out of control and straightforward. This was schoolboy karate at its finest. They were too tense to spar with fluidity, quickness and speed. We didn’t have K.O. or knockdown matches, but backfists and ridgehands to the head and face were allowed, as were throws, sweeps and leg kicks. A couple of guys from the KK dojo and one of our girls (who was sparring a much bigger DUDE) were knocked a little silly. One KK guy that got a good low roundhouse/high roundhouse combo to the head, thought his moms was trying to wake him up for school. He was like 30! Those were the rules we used at our dojo all the time. At first they disagreed to the face contact as we were just wearing hand pads. We thought it odd that they didn’t allow face/head contact in their kumite. Their Sensei explained that they often fought bare-knuckled, so I guess that made sense. Well anyway, since they weren’t use to face contact we would rack up the points. They only tried to punch the body, and when they started to go high with their hands, they were slow, looping and often hesitant. I wonder why? They got winded quickly and insisted that we fight 2, not 4 (which was standard at our school), 4 minute rounds . Our students agreed emphatically. It was frantic, but kind of easy to score. A lot of our students though it odd that they taped their ankles and feet. Why? They said that due to their intense training methodology many guys had bad ankles and unhealed, broken bones in their feet. Wow, all that and this was all they could produce? When the sparring was done, they would argue that the backfists and ridgehands wouldn’t have done anything in reality except anger them. My sensei use to come back with, “yes you are right, without padding they would have broken noses or concussed temples. Ridgehands can become hooks and backfists straight leads and jabs.” They couldn’t say a thing about our kicks, especially our rendition of leg kicking, which was always setting up sweeps and trips. They didn’t like the “holding and hitting” as they put it. We just giggled and said that was all Ti and this was “karaTI” after all! This happened every single time we would spar with a certain mainland school. They would invite us many times throughout the year. Same result every time. Kyokushinkai in the USA must be a different animal. Since I’ve moved back in the early 90s all I hear about is Shotokan, TKD and Kyokushin. I guess that’s what people have to choose from and observe. There’s very little legit karate out there (about 20 % of schools). The same can be said for Kung Fu, probably. Europe is even more worse off. I saw it as karate that used brute strength to compensate for its lack of varied and indepth knowledge of karate. Now Ashihara’s Karate, a Kyokushinkai offshoot, was very intriguing. Their use of forms and its practical application was refreshing to see in Japanese Karate. Maybe Oyama’s karate will finally make it back home to the Ryukyus after all. Regardless, the world will still be oblivious to the facts. They’ll say that KK was the innovator and earth Mover, hahaha! So for those of us who study “Whateva-otha’ Ryu” I’d like to say go ahead and kill yourselves in training. It ain’t making me an invalid at 60. I get stronger and better everyday. Lates… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Jamieson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/david_jamieson/32/19_2.png) [@David\_Jamieson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/David_Jamieson)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:29pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/27 "2002-11-23T14:29:11Z")
o-point- the Karate I know is IsshinRyu. It’s an excellent style and I very much enjoy study and practice of it. peace ---
**Author:** ![dezhen2001](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/dezhen2001/32/222_2.png) [@dezhen2001](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/dezhen2001)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/28 "2002-11-23T15:50:31Z")
omegapoint: just wanted to say asalam alaikum (if your muslim?) 🙂 dawood ---
**Author:** ![omegapoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@omegapoint](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/omegapoint)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/29 "2002-11-23T18:45:39Z")
yes and no… > Originally posted by dezhen2001 > [B]omegapoint: just wanted to say asalam alaikum (if your muslim?) 🙂 dawood [/B] Could just as easily be “Shalom” or “peace be with you”. I am Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Christian, Hebrew and Scientist, hahaha! Religion is so shizophrenic. The same message, different messenger. Variation on a theme. Like MAs, if your intent is correct, the spirit will reveal itself to you regardless. For religion the intent should be nothing but benevolence and unfettered truth. If your priorites are twisted and over-rationalized, if there is false logic in your intent, Existence will not respect you. The Deceiver will instead mask itself as the Creative Voice. Entropy will reign in your life. Sorry, didn’t mean to semi-hijack this thread. Blame the Universal Zulu Nation for making me opened minded! Peace, Unity, Wisdom, Love and Having Fun!!! A-Dios… ---
**Author:** ![omegapoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@omegapoint](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/omegapoint)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/30 "2002-11-23T18:55:32Z")
really real… > Originally posted by Kung Lek > [B]o-point- the Karate I know is IsshinRyu. > It’s an excellent style and I very much enjoy study and practice of it. peace [/B] In my opinion, Isshin Ryu is a much better style to train in than ANY Japanese karate. Who was/is your sensei? My sensei has a lot of Isshin friends. There is a reason that the Marines use Okinawan karate (Isshin/Shorin) techs in their H2H training. Why not Kyokushinkai or some other “hardcore” Japanese style if it’s the best “modern” karate for fighting? I understand what you’re trying to say. The “old school” styles are rare, but still “A-#1-Thumbs Up”! I’m not looking for people to agree or even believe me. I’m just giving this thread an OP perspective. Did I just speak of myself in the 4th person? Scary. Anyway, no disrespect to sensei Oyama or KK. Just making observations. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Jamieson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/david_jamieson/32/19_2.png) [@David\_Jamieson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/David_Jamieson)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 10:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/31 "2002-11-23T22:58:14Z")
o-point, my IsshinRyu teacher is/was Jean St.Pierre. I studied with him in the lates '70’s early '80’s. His teacher was a US marine who learned the new version in the '50’s while stationed in Okinawa. I also favour the Okinawan styles over the mainland when it comes to JMA. While IsshinRyu is said to have roots going back a good 500 years or so, it was reorganized in the '50’s and is regularly taught to service personel stationed in Okinawa since then. When I began study Tae Kwon Do after my teacher left to return to his home town, the transistion was at the very least difficult but brought a whole new set of kicks (though lacking in boxing skills) When I finally began serious study of CMA in '94, I found that the southern style my CMA sifu taught/ teaches had remarkably close flavour to the IsshinRyu. Not exactly alike in any way, just similar flavour. peace ---
**Author:** ![Tsuruken](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tsuruken/32/123_2.png) [@Tsuruken](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Tsuruken)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/32 "2002-11-24T01:28:12Z")
I have footage of Oyama "fighting " (wrestling ) a Bull (small calf). Not very impressive and severly edited to make him look good. ---
**Author:** ![dezhen2001](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/dezhen2001/32/222_2.png) [@dezhen2001](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/dezhen2001)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/33 "2002-11-24T03:39:23Z")
omega point: no problems, as far as i know theses only 1 other muslim besides me here, so was just wondering 🙂 dawood ---
**Author:** ![Kristoffer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/kristoffer/32/36_2.png) [@Kristoffer](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Kristoffer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/34 "2002-11-24T23:03:59Z")
This thread make me think about that Atmosphere song ‘nothing but sunshine’ Check my quote from that song 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kristoffer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/kristoffer/32/36_2.png) [@Kristoffer](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Kristoffer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/35 "2002-11-24T23:05:43Z")
true poet that slug ---
**Author:** ![omegapoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@omegapoint](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/omegapoint)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522/36 "2002-11-26T01:57:55Z")
bruhs anyway… > Originally posted by dezhen2001 > [B]omega point: no problems, as far as i know theses only 1 other muslim besides me here, so was just wondering 🙂 dawood [/B] Regardless of classification, we are all humans and brothers and sisters. We are One and the same, but self-hatred is rampant, therefore we have the religio-politico dynamics that there are. There is really one religious law: Love God and love yourself… Be honest and truth is revealed. I bash Japanese Karate (not all) b/c it is a pale reflection of the original intent of Tode. It is not honest with itself, this leads to guys like me. Drama is the effect that is caused. Peace and harmony… [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mas-oyama/16522.md?page=1)