# mantis grabbing speed

**URL:** <https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392>\
**Category:** Northern Praying Mantis\
**Created:** [June 5, 2001, 1:05am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392 "2001-06-05T01:05:33Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 3:29pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/41 "2001-06-29T15:29:03Z")

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“O.K let me help you, as far as chi goes scientificly it is magnectic energy componded by electromagnetics, meaning the brain which is the positive (yang) and the sacrum which is negitive (yin)”

Which is which? I agree magantic and electric fields are polarised but one does not attract the other. To create motion, you’ll need to interact the electric current and magnatic field at 90 degrees. The resultant force will be 90 degrees to the plane of each of those two components. However, it would require an immense amount of electric current and magnatic field to produce any meaningful amount of force.

If we have that sort of electric current running through us - it would fry our brains. I also don’t think that there is evidence to support that we are magnatically polarised - and if so - it wounldn’t be a great extent. otherwise we’ll be attracted to iron objects.

“We know of earths gravitational pull as positive and negitive”

Gravational pull is not polarised. Any thing which has mass is attracted by gravational field. Although scientist have postulated that there is a repelling field - kind of like anti-gravity. This was based on the relative positions of the stars and the theoritical age of the universe etc. However, even if this force exist, it works ONLY at macro range - I mean many many billion of light years.

“which is the same as our bodies, when polarity is reversed through qi-gong training or breathing techniqes we can reverse that polarity to become either very light for movement or levitation or heavy for rooting or grounding so the earth plays a very important role in this.”

I don’t think we can create anti-gravity as such. OK I guess if we create a strong enough electric current running though us we might be able to levitate off the earth surface if we interact the current at 90 degrees with the earth’s magnatic field. However, that would probably kill us first! Incidentally, experimental space craft can generate their own electricity by lowering a metallic teather directly towards earth. As they orbit the planet, the line of motion cuts through the earht’s magnitic field thereby creating an electric current. It’s kind of if you have magnatic field + motion you can get a current. With 2 components you can get the third.

“Just as trees take in our carbon dioxide and give off oxygen for without this simple circle we would sufficate.”

Understood, this is observed and scientifically verifiable. however, in reality the cycle is very complex.

“So to know chi is to know life.”

OK at a molicular level, the interations (ie chemical reactions) are due to positive and negative charges. However, the range in which these forces operate are very small. These simple interations can lead to complex systems such as life. But that again is just a theory - electric interations themselves may not result in life.

“To know chi within ones body we are abil to perform certain techniques that with out the use of chi would be impossilble! iron palm is one technique that totally relies on chi for it is not the muscle strength nor the force used from the body in which the object is broken. It is the amount of chi summend from the ground passing through the body and then through the object that does the breaking!”

i think it is more to do with working your muscles efficiently as described previosuly. Nevertheless, we can test the concept of drawing on the earth’s magnatic field. Would you affect the position of a compass placed in your vicinity when doing iron palm? Measure the amps between your head and sacrum - the amp meter would should the amount of lectric current running through your body. Calculate from the strength of the magnitic field which you’ve harnessed and the current to derive the force that you can potentially generate. Determine the stress factor of the object. If the stress factor is less than the force then yes you can break the object - otherwise no.

“not the person, they are simply the conductor for the force. a extremly simple but not totally acurate explination of chi is the life force energy that keeps us alive.”

I think it is the food we eat that keeps us alive. We don’t live on electric energy.

“And in no way should any martial art be seperated from this union of movement and chi, other wise it is but an empty shell and it cannot exsist without its opposite. the basic theory of the yin/yang symbol.”

Some instructors relate to the Yin Yang symbol which suggest opposit but complementary techniques.

“do you understand a little now? do you know what the yin/ yang symbol represents? if you do you will relize that it is all related and that any training must have both parts to be complete.”

What you said about chi and the power to break things is unlikey to be possible. there are other ways to explain iron palm. Nevertheless, you can run that simple experiment to prove or disprove my case.

“If it is not than the teacher is in no way qualified to teach and you should seek a knowledgable shifu…”

My ex-mantis instructor had been knowledgeable in Mantis as shown by the fighting ability of himselfand his students. That’s all the prove I need.

Maximus Materialize!

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**Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/42 "2001-06-30T02:18:20Z")

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earth dragon

Dude,

```
    I've had enough of your dumb ass. During my morning surfing I came across your name several times and your students enty. I then began to proceed to scan your entry's and ultimately your web page. I think that all of this has just gone to your head, and that your trying to claim fame and glory for your ego thats in your closet. I just now had a look at your stance's and if thats you in the pictures, well your Sorry!!! dude your students have better form than you do and please before you give advice on gung fu topics, correct yourself first. Thankyou       

                      jason

```

p.s. If you think that your  
good, lets just see

```
    anytime anyplace anyday-one 
 of my theories is to put your
 money were your mouth is and if
 your think your a bad as prove it.
if you want, please meet with me.
   
    hyperspace_5@hotmail.com :cool:

```

jay-jay

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**Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 6:17am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/43 "2001-06-30T06:17:55Z")

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vortex dude?

well with such a hostile attitude you must be awsome!!!as far as critisizing others you must be a master! tell me where your school is? how long have you trained? from who? how many internet fights have you fought and won? all of them I would imagine, your pretty tough hiding behind your key board! any time any place you say! well if fighting will make you feel better and for some reason prove something to you then how about my school when ever you want I will pay half of your plane ticket I think thats fair! and for yet another student that has know idea what the stance is about please dont tell me its to low and you can fight from that position. I dont want to go into that again! before you speak ignorantly ask your teacher what is tang lang shr is that will help you understand! and by the way my training was from a chinese grand master, how about you?

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 6:44am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/44 "2001-06-30T06:44:40Z")

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ego response

well I guess I did a terrible job trying to explain chi from a scientific veiw. For to understand chi it is like trying to prove theories they are not respected by scientists unless they can taste it, touch it, see it and smell it, it doesnt exsist! so I dont know how without showing you, the force of chi, trying to explain it but hopefully some one on this post will do a better job than I did LOL. You stated that you think an iron palm break is only muscle than how would you explain a double break where two blocks are stacked ontop of one another and the palm is turned over keeping in contact with the block then the bottom one is broken!please no sciencetific notation. I have seen it done at a seminar at my school by my kungfu brother john newberry [www.prayingmantiskungfu.com](http://www.prayingmantiskungfu.com) surley that cannot be muscle can it! if chi does not break things how do you explain the bending of steel, breaking of bricks and concrete, and the other many chi skillls possed by shaolin monks? all things cannot be proven by science! other wise science would know how we got here, and darwinism would not exsist! one cannot look narrowmindedly in the martial arts. To know onesself is to be enlightened, and just becuse someone knows how to fight does not make them a man, for fighting is the lowest level of martial arts.

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 6:57am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/45 "2001-06-30T06:57:48Z")

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hey vortex

dude as you so eliquintly called me I just emailed my kung fu brother’s school in alabama very close to you indeed, and he laughed at your gross attempt to challange me but he said you can save your $ on a plane ticket and match hands with him before you get embarrased in N.Y so if you are serious I will email you his address! but if you have a hard on for me you know where I am! P.S sansho rules! bring a cup!!!

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [July 1, 2001, 11:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/46 "2001-07-01T23:48:24Z")

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Chi power

Earthdragon,

If those powers do exist it is truely amazing. In reference to your brothers demonstartion of breaking the second block,

1. what is the range of your chi power?

If it can be tranmitted through the first block to break the second, is it possible to tranmit the energy through air or through vacuum for that matter?

2)It seems that his palm is causing some sort of resonance on the block which caused it to shatter. Kind of like ultra sound on a kidney stone.

If that’s the case, it should be possible to enhance or “mode-lock” the frequenccy of the chi resonance through an array of quartz stones. Put it this way, you can intensify the power of a laser through mode-lock techniques!

What you could deliver is a deadly pulse of chi energy say 1MW and upward with a range of a sniper’s rifle.

That’s the reason why the chinese were slow to apply firearms to their war techniques. Their science was based on totally different theories to the West. Relying on chi energy and application of bio-magnatic fields for a lot of the applications.

For example acupuncture is based on aligning the bio-electric systems of the body. it stands to reason that this energy can be focused.

I guess you can say, the Shaolin way negated the use of firearms for a long time. Until such time where advance weapons can be mass produced that could match a kung fu master than could only be produced from select individuals and after a life time of training.

well I guess I did a terrible job trying to explain chi from a scientific veiw. For to understand chi it is like trying to prove theories they are not respected by scientists unless they can taste it, touch it, see it and smell it, it doesnt exsist! so I dont know how without showing you, the force of chi, trying to explain it but hopefully some one on this post will do a better job than I did LOL. You stated that you think an iron palm break is only muscle than how would you explain a double break where two blocks are stacked ontop of one another and the palm is turned over keeping in contact with the block then the bottom one is broken!please no sciencetific notation. I have seen it done at a seminar at my school by my kungfu brother john newberry [www.prayingmantiskungfu.com](http://www.prayingmantiskungfu.com) surley that cannot be muscle can it! if chi does not break things how do you explain the bending of steel, breaking of bricks and concrete, and the other many chi skillls possed by shaolin monks? all things cannot be proven by science! other wise science would know how we got here, and darwinism would not exsist! one cannot look narrowmindedly in the martial arts. To know onesself is to be enlightened, and just becuse someone knows how to fight does not make them a man, for fighting is the lowest level of martial arts.

Maximus Materialize!

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**Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 1:21am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/47 "2001-07-02T01:21:59Z")

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response ego

Not sure what you mean by range of chi? and of coarse it is possible to transmit chi through air for part of chi is air, that’s one way a person is abill to enhance chi is proper breathing techniques,obviously oxygen supplies nutrients to the body, tissue and organs. Another form of levitation is from pranana hatha where excessive breathing is used to turn water based cells into air based cells thus making your body weight less dense then the air which surronds you, allowing one to become extremly light. You may argue this point from a scientific point of veiw but there are many books on this very subject, so research before you draw conclusion. As far as amplifiying chi this can only be done by practice and experience, the more you do the stronger it becomes. No machine can duplicate the power of life. My qigong teacher Master Yen Chu Feng heals cancer, lopus, aids, arthritis, Ms , Md, bells palsy you name it she has healed it. She is the 3rd highest ranked qi-gong master in the world and has traveled extensively in 11 countries to heal and demonstate her abilities.I met her when I lived in china town San Fransico and became her first american student, she moved with me to buffalo and lives her with me. One of her demonstrations has a room full of people with their eyes closes shaking and rolling around on the floor. Another is to break chopsticks with her throat. Only chi could possilbly break wood without force.We did a show on AM buffalo a morning T.V show and she put chi into my leg without touching me and I inserted a 9" steel wire through my calf muscle with out the slightest pain or blood. So there is many things not proven by science that do exsist, you just have to open your mind. For any martial artist’s ultimate goal is to harness internal force and become one with nature for this is enlightenment and second to nothing!

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/48 "2001-07-02T13:10:34Z")

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Earth Dragon

o.k. where is this alabama school anyway?  
I will be happy to go dutch on our San shou date.

🆒

jay-jay

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**Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/49 "2001-07-02T13:12:46Z")

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Earth Dragon

You can reach me at [hyperspace\_5@hotmail.com](mailto:hyperspace_5@hotmail.com) 😉😛🆒

jay-jay

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**Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 11:01pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/50 "2001-07-02T23:01:57Z")

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Chi energy

So you must have heard about the recently uncovered writing of ancient text from the Gobi desert in China.

It speaks of powerful monks that have achieved a state of pure chi energy - the paper described them as Templars. It was during a time when the Gobi desert was rich and fertile and a great chinese civilization (that pre-dated the first emperor) thrived.

It also speaks of another great civilization in the harsh mountants of Nepal. Both civilizations developed a type of “science” quite unlike our own. The emphasis is based on finding harmony with nature rather than “conquring”. Nevertheless, human nature saw them at war. They had developed powerful war machines based on harnessing cosmic forces - derived from planetary alignment.

In the ensuing exchange, powerful earth quakes destroyed the civilization in Nepal - burying it in the region now known as the Hymalayas.

The civilization in the Gobi was also reduced to ashes the the once fertile land was transformed into an inhospitable desert. Although there were survivors, their great knowlege was lost and the lived as nomads.

However, the paper talks of a few who escape the destruction of Nepal, bringing away the little they carried. This formed the basis of the development of the Indian medicine and fighting arts - note: dim mak orginated from india. over time this knowledge was brought back to China or more precisely the Shaolin temple.

However, it appears that the unexplinable powers achieved by Shaoin monks is insignificant compared to the powers achieved by thoese civilizations.

However, sceince has taken a differnt turn in the 21th C. and it is only today that scientist are talking about high energy lasers, particle beams ,electromagantic rail guns, singularity vortexes and chaos engines.

The paper expressed that in the past, a single Templar would have proved a match for any modern arms force.

Maximus Materialize!

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**Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/51 "2001-07-03T02:14:44Z")

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Dude wheres my car

are you the guy that stared in that new movie your volcabulary speaks for itself! perter ray school can be found at [www.8step.com](http://www.8step.com) as far as you calling names and critsizing a sifu I f you are serious and not just talking \*\*\*\*, i hope you can back it up. I havent fought full contact in 10 years but if you think you are tough as you say from your typing then book a flight to NY let me know the date, and come to my school and we will go down the street to my freinds boxing gym and you can take out your frustrations and then apoligize for blurting out profanity against a sifu! if you do not respond to this by confirming a date then I and every one on this board will know you are an internet tough guy who talks \*\*\*\* behind his almighty keyboard! they say the one with the biggest mouth can be heard while driving away! so quit wasting my time or back up what you say!

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/52 "2001-07-03T02:20:04Z")

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attention everyone

please do not take what I say to certain people on this board the wrong way, I am very humble and have surpassed the tough guy role many years ago in my training! its just that when someone rudly interups a good thread by shouting profanity and calling some one out it kinda gets under my skin. I’ve trained for almost 20years and taught for the last five and i’ve seen them come and go, from tough guys to insecure guys but no one likes an \*\*\*hole so again please excuse my barbaric behavior. shay shay

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/53 "2001-07-03T02:29:02Z")

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dear ego

I am not familar with the paper from the gobi dessert. I am just speaking from my own experience and what I have been taught. I am lucky enough to have been taught by two chinese masters both of whom I haved lived with, well one I lived at his kwoon but nevertheless I have been doing kung fu and qi-gong for 19 or so years and seen many amazing things in that time some of which I have descibed to you.I cannot stress enough that kung fu without the pressence of chi is but an empty shell. please go to your local book store and purchase a book of qi-gong it will open your eyes widely.

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 8:05am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/54 "2001-07-03T08:05:17Z")

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Earth Dragon

Hello \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*,

I am a ten year old student of Shoalin and Wing Chun. I moved to florida and have no school now(saddly)

I am one of the most enthusiastic and motivated Gung-fu practitioners that I know of. It is my way of life. As for pulling your leg, I wanted to speak with you. It showed some true colors. You should know that a master does not critisize nor does he have an ego. I was playing,  
but would still enjoy a nice match. Friends of mine practice with no pads and no rules exept just don’t kill or criple or blind each other. Real life combat reflects one’s practice habbits.  
Please tell me what school in alabama your talking about and I would be most honored to attend, God works in mystierious ways. As for the profanity, I thought that it was weak. By the way I think that Grand Master Wei hsiao Tang is really great! I am looking for a worthy school to attend but have had no good turn ups. Grand Ultimate snake hand really weaves through the grass. I mean well.

```
     "look within to see without one self"

```

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY TO EVERYONE ESP. Earth Dragon

gatto go train in my back yard

not edited by L.V.S.

jay-jay

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**Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 12:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/55 "2001-07-03T12:58:16Z")

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dear JJ

well well well it does my heart good to know there are actually some martial artists on this board. I was rather distraught when I read your first message. I could not figure out where you were comming from, I am in no way egotistical and a very down to earth person. I have been humbled by my teachers in the late eighties and had any chip on my shoulder long since kicked off 1000x over, but as a sifu who posts his site for all to see I must at times defend myself from allegations that I think I am better then others because I like to teach/preach what I have learned. sometimes people take it negitively that I do this but I mean no harm. You would be suprised at some of the contant and mannor that people have the odasity to type! my now freind ego extrodinar first typed that my stances were wrong! but after much explaination I think he now understands me a little better. take care and god bless…P.S my kung fu brother is sifu damien ray birmingham Alabama P.O box 55304 ph (205) 941-0301 or if thats to far try my other kung fu brother at kung fu usa sifu tom sumbera 525 10th street suite 507 lake park florida 33403 ph (561) 8633085…

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Post date:** [July 4, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/56 "2001-07-04T16:34:07Z")

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on the advice

Thankyou so much. I will look into them.  
I am dieing to train in a worthy school close to me from pensacola, fl. If you dont use it you’ll lose it. God bless you

p.s. by the way your looks in your stance training,… you must be able to jump super high?  
or you have a super grounding!, like a mountain. 🆒

come on,

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**Post date:** [July 7, 2001, 5:45am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/57 "2001-07-07T05:45:09Z")

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lighting vortex

well im flattered but I will leave the high jumping able to leap tall buildings things up to superman! I do however have enduring leg strength not the kind that can squat press “weights are heavy” lol, but I was totally impressed when I saw master Chan Pui of wah lumpraying mantis at age fifty do a low set from which he was 6 inches of the ground through most of the form. I was in awe of his internal stamena, so i tried it! and it is much harder than it looks!!! try it for yourself… lift one foot straight ahead like a front kick and drop down and stand up! try to do 5 if you can! So yes low stances are a goal for me to achive and even bigger one is to do them in my fifties! We have a low set in our tai chi that my sifu makes look easy but two minutes into it my legs were burning! so he told me to do those single leg bends as described above 50 with each leg! try 5 you will be suprised

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/58 "2001-07-07T19:31:17Z")

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reflection

hello Earth Dragon,

I tryed it, while doing the exersize I learned that you need super balance agility and internal strength! I wonder if this type of training would be benificial for speed in fighting postures in a real fight?

```
                         good day,

                        Seiryu go :cool:

```

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**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/59 "2001-07-09T03:41:15Z")

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respnse

how did you do were you ablil to pump out at least 5 hard isnt it?.. good question,one of the first things my students learn when the come to my school is tibeten stances they are 2,600 years old practices by yogi’s/ monks alike we use 8 ,they are designed to increace strength, flexibility, endurance and balance they are very trying postures for even a minute when you strive for longer they become enlightning some monks hold them for hours boddidarma did them for days.. hard to imagine! they are not to confused with fighting stances as like the low mantis stance first picture on our web site it has a fighting application but not from that low, they are to help us learn of ourselfs not to learn how to fight others. few things in kung fu are for fighting: many things in kung fu are for us to learn about how we are as a person/martial artist… no one wants to teach a student that takes kung fu tho learn how to fight… I send people like that to the boxing gym!!!

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2001, 3:48am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/mantis-grabbing-speed/5392/60 "2001-07-09T03:48:47Z")

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one more thing

for balance we do whats called (fai yen) flying sparrow, extend one leg back point toes, while bending your upper body down even with the ground arch your back and keep your extended leg even with your shoulder blades point your fingers back like wings lock your foundation legs knee! start at 1 minute work up from there it will train your equilibrium to balance it’s self while you hold the posture good luck let me know how long you can hold it without touching the ground… PS dont forget to switch legs lol

[http://www.kungfuUSA.net](http://www.kungfuUSA.net)

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