May I ask how many of you practice a form called “Mang Fu Ha Sahn” or “Fierce Tiger Descends The Mountain” ?
It is practiced by Fut Gar players of the Leong Tien Chu line. He taught in the 1920’s and onward.
I heard and read that the form is also practiced in the “Southern Shaolin Black Tiger System” and “Fong Yang” and “Beggar Style”. (Beggar Style may be the same as Fong Yang, i’m not sure)
It could be a form that derived directly from the Southern Temple.
Not really relevent maybe, but there is a beautiful Bak Mei / Lung Ying older Hakka form that goes by that name. It’s one of the most powerful sets I’ve ever seen - not many people do this set, I hope one day to learn it myself!
Is it possible to know how the Bak Mei / Lung Ying Hakka form looks like a little ?
Is it close short range techniques in a higher horse like typical Bak Mei, or is it featuring low horse stances and big circular blocks and backfists, palms and uppercuts. This is how mine looks like. It has the feeling of a tiger style.
It is definatly not Mang Foo Chut Lum, it is a harder form, lots of biu sao’s, tight foo jows, and circular grabbing technique. The stances are very low. There is an older bow on the form, not Lung Ying, not Bak Mei, but what they call old session (the base Hakka Art to both of these Arts). It is certainly one of the more advanced sets I have ever seen in Lung Ying. However, I have never seen these older session sets included in the “modern” curriculums out there.
Mang Foo Tiew Cheung (Fierce Tiger Jumps the Wall) is an older session Lung Ying form, seems to me where some of the Bak Mei material must have originated from. This form is GREAT for the back - really loosens up the old spine!
There are other names for this set - can’t recall them offhand, I’ll check my notes.
Do other versions start with three circular fist blocks in front, step into “sey ping ma” and left palm, followed by left clockwise circular block and right backfist touching left wrist area, followed by “Monkey Graps The Peach” … many circular clocks, uppercuts, double palms and backfists.
If Lung Ying or Bak Mei has a “Mang Fu Ha Sahn” is it similar to the one I describe, or only has it just the same name ?
Can you tell me more about Futsan Hung Kuen ? I have heard of Hung Kuen and its usual forms, but not anything on Futsan Hung Kuen or “Night Tiger catches prey” form.
Is it related closely to Lam Sai Wing’s Hung Kuen.
Sounds very interesting. I would love to learn more about it, on the forum or off. <teleka@pacbell.net>
Do you have a Big Buddha Palm Form ? nothing but palms, chops, slaps and pokes, slow and smooth like Tai Chi or Ba Gua.
I am researching the roots of some of my forms. My Sifu passed away 9 years ago, so I have to do my own history homework now.
Ao Quin : Mang Foo Tiew Cheung (Fierce Tiger Jumps the Wall) is an older session Lung Ying form,
This set is practised by the Chinese run Lung Ying Jing Jung class in my town. You say ‘older session’, I am presuming by this you mean ‘not mixed with Pak Mei’?
I found the reference to the form. It is also sometimes called “Sang Lung Wood Foo” (live dragon, live tiger?). Apparently a slightly different version of Mang Foo Ha Shan. There are several other “mystery” sets I have seen, which are incredible and amazingly beautiful forms in terms of power generation and fluidity. Of these old system forms (Hakka Form), all I have been taught is an older “Poison Snake” form (not one of the regular 2 PS sets).
Mang Foo Tiew Cheung (Wild Tiger Jumps the Wall) is also an older type form - less Dragon influence (a blended “new session” form to be sure though). I believe Bak Mei emphasized this type of power in their own system, and shares this in common (and borrowed some of it) from LYMK. It emphasizes the short, crisp, direct power. Mark - by “new session” I mean LYK’s modern curriculum, blending the Dragon System with his Village System. By “old session”, I mean the older Lam Family Hakka Style (Chu Gar?) - no one seems to know what this system was termed (it is hidden for some reason).
Mang Foo Chut Lum is of course Bak Mei. I have only seen pieces of this set - demonstrated by the “Tiger” of HK, on a expose on Bak Mei. Very soft and “chi gungish”.
Hi Sui Fuw, - Thank you for your (somewhat) kind comments. I may indeed be that good fellow you mentioned! By the way, who the heck are my “friends” who are giving you a hard time? Did I not respond to one of your previous messages?
As to your questions, I have only seen these forms - I hope one day to learn them though! By whom? My Sifu of course, when he feels I am mature enough. If he is not familiar with the material, I am sure he would refer me to someone who could help me. My Tai Chi Style, yes, if I were to specialize, it would be Yang (hope that answers your question). Which temple is it from? I don’t believe MFHS is from a temple - I believe this is simply a higher level of the old session system.
Anywho, hope that answers your questions…if you know anything more about these forms, it would be very kind of you to share it with us!
Please don’t apologize! I always enjoy talking to those who share an interest in the Arts!
I was told that a student of Dragon Style would benefit more from the Yang Style (same power), and a Bak Mei student would benefit more from the Chen Style (same power). I have dabbled in Yang (short form), and even a little Liu Ha Baat Fa. I have not had formal instruction in them, nor decided which internal art I would like to really learn one day…for one thing I am not patient enough right now! Also, like you said, there are very few legitimate instructors in Tai Chi in my neck of the woods, and I don’t want to waste my time learning empty movement.
I don’t really understand what you mean by “lines of the circle are broken”. As far as I know, both Yang Tai Chi and LY are considered “middle range” - not Northern and long like Chen, not short and South like Wu.
I have no clue which temple MFHS comes from - it would be very interesting to know though! Are there still temples / monasties in China that teach these Arts?
As for where I saw these forms performed, I saw MFHS performed at a videotaped demonstration of different Dragon Schools which came together in celebration, in 1996 (HK). I also saw several older forms performed at my Si-Bak’s birthday celebration last December in HK. Stunningly beautiful sets, some of which I still have no name for, nor yet understand how they are related to the Lung Ying (sigh). My Sifu has also taught me one of these older sets.
Does anyone know more about the “older” Dragon Forms which are not included in the “modern” curriculum?
Of course I could be quite wrong about everything - that’s why we’re all on these forums, to learn more, and refine the knowledge of the things we think we already know!
Mang fu’s
if tiger go’s up, then it must come down? is temple on the mountain?
if lung ying internal, why it need tai gik? if tai gik long and made short,can not be small circle , must be broken? if hakka short and made long, will circle be too big, broken to ? if wall is in front, why not go a round long? only chen and yang taigik in guanzhou? how one tree and only two branch? are the other taig ikfamily unseen roots?
if lung ying survive 1000 years. can it only have one branch? old or new, which plum sweeter? does sweet matter if tree is strong? does sweeter fruit make more stronger sapling? who benefit from fruit, man who eats or ground who grows?
and hak ka/tai gik, if 'same power ', how so one win?
I am new and wish all kung fu brother here Sang Nin Fi Luk
There is a form in Hung Fut called “Mang Fu Ha Sahn” just as you described, fierce tiger decends the mountain. Perhaps your school does teach a little hung fut or perhaps the fut ga of hung fut is the same as that which you study
