# Making money teaching Praying Mantis **URL:** \ **Category:** Northern Praying Mantis\ **Created:** [November 30, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124 "2004-11-30T21:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hua\_Lin\_Laoshi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/hua_lin_laoshi/32/64_2.png) [@Hua\_Lin\_Laoshi](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hua_Lin_Laoshi)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/21 "2004-12-05T15:00:34Z")
“Elsewhere, people seem to look at the Sifu as the guy behind the Burger king counter who’s supposed to serve it your way.” Good analogy. yu shan It may be true for some to have multiple financial obligations due at the same time so you might want to change the payment date for anyone that’s consistantly late. After that if they’re still late thay have no excuse. I had payments fall on either the 5th or the 20th. Also, you get what you pay for so make sure there’s a noticable difference between the attention and training a paying students gets compared to the ones tagging along for free. Just some thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![sayloc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@sayloc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sayloc)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/22 "2004-12-05T16:22:44Z")
When a student starts I make them pay for two months up front. On the anniversary date of their first month they pay for one month. That way they are always one month ahead. If they are a week late no big deal. That gives you a little extra time to get the money out of them. You will always have people who owe you money. You can not get around it. Even if it is only a bottle of water. About 3% of my students are always late on payment or just dont pay at all. That is not bad when you compare it to other types of business. If you set your school up in a poor part of town, what do you expect? Contracts are the best way to go. I just cant bring myself to do that at this time. I know I wont send anyone into collections. I think the reason contracts work that the student would rather pay $80 a month for 6 months than to come in and tell you they want to stop taking class. Some day I will do contracts. People do not care about the sifu being the father of the school. that is bs to 75% of them. 20% just tell you what you want to hear. 5% care. But, just because some one is called sifu does not mean that they are a good person or even deserve any more respect than anyone else. Half of the sifu’s out there teaching now were probably the one’s who did not pay when they were students. I am sure many of the people behind the burger king counter are more responsible than many sifus. If you are out at the bars getting hammered with your students like their friend, then you should not expect to be taken seriously. I have been cheated by many a sifu. That is another thread. Yushan , It sounds to me like you have a very successful club. You are doing it part time and making extra cash. That sounds great. You are probably producing better students than the full time guys. Keep up the good work! Have a good day ---
**Author:** ![yu\_shan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/77aa72/32.png) [@yu\_shan](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yu_shan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/23 "2004-12-06T02:22:03Z")
-N- I am sorry, did not know. Your teachers spirit will live on thru you… keep him in your heart and your thoughts. I thank you -N- for your response to my little rant. I think 100% like you. It is embarrising for me to remind students to pay, and I`ve just about had it. This never use to be a problem. I have noticed this recent generation seems to be lacking morals and ethics. Sure my students are good people. And I do tell “the stories” about my teachers and all they have done and how lucky we are, etc. This generation coming up seem spoon fed and use to life handed to them. I too know how it feels to be poor, but I always payed my Shifu! I am going to think about the idea of having a responsible senior student collect and communicate this to the few that cant seem to get it. Sayloc, Our group has been known to party together. To be honest, we use to party alot more when I was in Wah Lum. No knock down drinking, just get togethers to socialize. These get-togethers have tappered off in the years. Mostly because (senior students) are growing older and having familys and relationships. I do not let myself get too close, they know I care. And yes, I have a nice little club going. There is alot of potential with these young people. It is not the KF that is hard to teach, it is breaking bad habits. I can only lead by example, it is how I teach my KF. Maybe it will sink in someday, with some it has already happened. And yes, I make sure money made goes to my family, it is one of my main driven forces. The odd thing, my school is in a very upscale area filled with major colleges. I`m new to this area, going to put out a flyer in these schools over the holidays, we shall see. Hua Lin, I here ya man, you get what you pay for. I understand what you are saying about the attention between those who pay and those who tag along! But, I do give two weeks into the month to come up with tuition. I do stress to some the fact they need to budget. And tell them how I do this sort of thing. In closing, I think along the same lines as -N-. The Asian culture is full of quality. ---
**Author:** ![N11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@N11](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/N11)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/24 "2004-12-06T16:34:14Z")
> Originally posted by sayloc > [B]But, just because some one is called sifu does not mean that they are a good person or even deserve any more respect than anyone else. Half of the sifu’s out there teaching now were probably the one’s who did not pay when they were students. I am sure many of the people behind the burger king counter are more responsible than many sifus.[/B] I believe it! N. ---
**Author:** ![N11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@N11](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/N11)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/25 "2004-12-06T17:09:45Z")
Re: -N- > Originally posted by yu shan > In closing, I think along the same lines as -N-. The Asian culture is full of quality. > LOL… good and bad, just like any other. I just look at it as “this is how we do things” and “this is what I’m used to”. Here’s an example of the Chinese mindset. This week, we had a guest in the class… a teacher, and also a kungfu cousin as it turns out. A mom of 2 of the students found out, and lectured the kids in advance on behaving respectfully, and on not doing anything to bring shame or embarrassment to their teacher. After the class, she asked me several times if the kids behaved properly. I was glad to be able to answer yes. If I had said “no” or “yes, but…” the kids would have had no Gameboy and no Xbox for the following week. They also would have had to write a letter of apology, and they would have apologised in person as well. This has happened before. In Cantonese, we call this “ga gow” or family teaching. It’s one of the cultural values. One of the worst criticisms of a child and his or her parents is to say “mo ga gow” or “he has no family teaching”. It is an embarrassment to the entire family. And it’s the absolute worst if a teacher, kungfu or otherwise, has made that criticism. N. ---
**Author:** ![Oso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/oso/32/63_2.png) [@Oso](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Oso)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/26 "2004-12-06T21:50:38Z")
> One of the worst criticisms of a child and his or her parents is to say “mo ga gow” or “he has no family teaching”. It is an embarrassment to the entire family. And it’s the absolute worst if a teacher, kungfu or otherwise, has made that criticism. round here we jus’ say “His momma din raise him up raight” 😃 yea, that’s one of the things i’m struggling with in my school as well being so new. Ming Yue is doing a good job of getting everyone squared away though. It’s tough starting out when there aren’t any real ‘senior’ students. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Mantis](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/joe_mantis/32/231_2.png) [@Joe\_Mantis](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Joe_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/27 "2004-12-07T06:00:39Z")
Just a thought: Many on this forum seem to have many years of experience in CMA and understand how CMA was taught in China and what the relationship of the Sifu and the student is… yadda yadda… However, what about the NEW student who hasn’t had exposure to CMA and is basically clueless about the afore mentioned dynamic? I have found that it is my responsibility to educate the new student as to how I want things done in my facility. If they haven’t paid up it is my problem. IT seems that all the die hard CMAers know that training is a matter of priority. When I wanted to learn something then somehow I “found” the money for it. I think we need educate the student to the Value of their training. I don’t like contracts either so we use “agreements.” I agree to show up at the appointed time and help students learn CMA. They agree that they will commit a certain time period to me (months) so that I can help them benefit from their training. I think student’s should sign a contract/agreement because I signed one with my landlord. Commitment is key here… peace, Joe Mantis ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Mantis](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/joe_mantis/32/231_2.png) [@Joe\_Mantis](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Joe_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/28 "2004-12-07T06:12:15Z")
continued rant To teach good Praying Mantis for a living does require a different mindset. IMO it requires asking ourselves HOW can I continue to teach quality martial arts yet reach a greater number of people? We may have to change or deviate from the way we were taught. Actually maybe the WAY (not what) we were taught wasn’t all that good. I had a teacher who was a great martial artist but couldn’t teach worth a darn. He could show stuff (like a college prof who just reads his notes) but he couldn’t engage the student at their level. Having been in education for a number of years, I was running one of his classes and he yelled at me for the way I (a professional teacher) was “teaching.” I didn’t say anything except that I vowed I wouldn’t teach my students like he taught. How can we continue to do a great job training our students but reach a greater number of people? Teach on little teachers, Joe Mantis ---
**Author:** ![N11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@N11](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/N11)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 9:28am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/29 "2004-12-07T09:28:12Z")
> Originally posted by Joe Mantis > However, what about the NEW student who hasn’t had exposure to CMA and is basically clueless about the afore mentioned dynamic? > If his momma din raise him up raight, I tell him, “Sorry, I’m not a teacher. I just practice here with my family.” Then I suggest he check out the local karate schools. So far, no one has asked me how the 55 year old white guy is related to me 😉 Funny story to some… One of my junior classmates relocated to southern California and wanted to stay in some kind of martial art. She found Sifu Hawkins Cheung and asked when were classes. He told her to come back at a particular time and day. Everything was ok until she continued with, “Is that when you have classes?” Without saying another word, Sifu Cheung turned his back on her and walked away. N. ---
**Author:** ![sayloc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@sayloc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sayloc)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/30 "2004-12-07T13:37:07Z")
Great post joe mantis! It seems you and I both feel that the student as an indivudual human being is just as imporant as the art itself. I think that is the first thing an instructor should realize if he/she wants to “make money teaching praying mantis kung fu”. ---
**Author:** ![SaMantis](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/samantis/32/203_2.png) [@SaMantis](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SaMantis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/31 "2004-12-07T15:44:57Z")
Earning a living teaching CMA – I think about the issue quite a lot. Maybe more than I should, considering I’ve got a few more years to go in my system before opening a school becomes a real consideration. No matter how you structure the program, it will be a full-time job getting the school up and running and keeping it profitable. (And this is in addition to the regular full-time job most of us have to keep to pay the rent.) You have to stay cognizant of the fact that it is a business, even if you just teach for the love of it. A lot of other people/entities will only see you as a business – not your students, but the landlord, the utility companies, the IRS, etc. You have to satisfy their requirements. I’ve been a freelance writer for several years now, and getting work is and has always been a full-time task. I recommend to anyone, in any type of business, to take several business courses. Not just at the community college – there are free courses taught by federal, state and local government agencies. Look up the SBA to start. If you’re starting a CMA school, this is a great way to begin learning “the business side” with just an investment of time. IMO the better focused your business & marketing plans are, the easier they are to implement, and then you can spend more time actually teaching. ---
**Author:** ![WhiteMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecc23a/32.png) [@WhiteMonkey](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/WhiteMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/32 "2004-12-07T16:31:56Z")
Ladies self defence is not that bad, but I think I will keep the kids out untill their at least 11, same as my Sifu, he wont teach kids, with out teaching the parents, you cant drop off the little 9yr old at the door and expect Sifu to babysit, I agree too young…no good . Mike ---
**Author:** ![sayloc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@sayloc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sayloc)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/33 "2004-12-07T18:52:34Z")
I have to disagree with your point on teaching children. ---
**Author:** ![Shadow\_Skill](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/shadow_skill/32/547_2.png) [@Shadow\_Skill](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Shadow_Skill)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/34 "2004-12-07T19:56:16Z")
I have to agree with white monkey. Kung fu isn’t a time to drop the kids off and leave. I don’t think the parents have to be part of the class but, they need to stay their until class is over. ---
**Author:** ![sayloc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@sayloc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sayloc)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/35 "2004-12-07T20:16:15Z")
I usually teach them kung fu during the time they are there. Not sure what you mean by baby sitting. If you dont teach respect and self control I could see where you may have a problem. Most parents stay for the children under 8 anyway. I start the kids out doing the moderate to full contact san shou at 8 if they want. It works great. They are becoming good fighters. You are missing a big part of the market if you dont teach children below 11. That age group makes up a big part of my rent. I think the children can benifit and learn traditional MA below 11 years old. I only have about 40 kids with about 25 bieng under 11 years of age. I may not be doing that great myself. I know one thing, you cant think like a monkey and make a living at teaching praying mantis kung fu. Somtimes you have to think out of the box. 🙂 If anyone would like to know how I run my kids program, just pm and I would be glad to help. ---
**Author:** ![N11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@N11](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/N11)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/36 "2004-12-07T21:48:27Z")
> Originally posted by sayloc > I start the kids out doing the moderate to full contact san shou at 8 if they want. It works great. > Yep. > Originally posted by sayloc > I think the children can benifit and learn traditional MA below 11 years old. > Yep, again. N. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Mantis](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/joe_mantis/32/231_2.png) [@Joe\_Mantis](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Joe_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/37 "2004-12-08T01:57:48Z")
Definately agree with you SaMantis. Get some business info under your belt. Great point SayLoc; teaching kids does not equate to babysitting. I let parents drop off their kids for class. They are very punctual about being on time for pick up. And while the parents are gone, the kids are learning and practicing kung fu. I don’t particularly favor teaching children, but it helps with the rent and I can help get kids started on a lifelong journey in kung fu. N: I often get kids whose “momma didn’t raise him right.” But for some reason the parents wonder why the child shows more discipline around me than at home. I’ve even had parents jokingly say that I should move in with them to make sure their child stays disciplined. 😃 Most unruly kids want to fit in and so they tend to change their behavior to that of the rest of the class. Teaching kids is all a matter of personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![sayloc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@sayloc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sayloc)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/38 "2004-12-08T02:40:53Z")
Joe Mantis I can tell that you have teaching experience. To be honest I have my higher level students run my kids program for me. I am thare for every class to manage and to keep an eye on things (One reason I do not participate is because my children are in the class. It is to hard for me to teach my own children) . I feel it is a great place to start your assistants on their way to being effective instructors. I think you will agree that you have to have a good indtructor training program in place. I hate the schools who just turn wanna be instructurs lose without any trainihg. I have two 11 year olds who have been with me for three years and they can bust through a difficult two person set and I am about to start them on thier fist two person weapons set. I could not imagine making them wait untill just now to start them out. I never underestimate children. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Mantis](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/joe_mantis/32/231_2.png) [@Joe\_Mantis](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Joe_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/39 "2004-12-08T03:10:50Z")
Sayloc: Check your PM. Thanks for the props. I too have “more experienced” students helping in my classes. Yes, leadership training is very important although I need to improve in that area. Creating effective instructors is a whole other issue. Many people are concerned with making sure that PM is passed along authentically and genuinely and purely etc. Which I think it should. However many do not take the time to insure that those who have dedicated themselves to PM are able to pass it on effectively. The typical great practioner, terrible teacher issue. PM me about your San shou fighting for kids. I like the idea and would like to know more. Just a thought: Was Micahelangelo any less of an artist because he was in business (Sistine Chapel)? Just so, a PM teacher is not any less skilled becaue they are in the business of teaching PM kung fu. Peace, Joe Mantis ---
**Author:** ![sayloc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@sayloc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sayloc)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124/40 "2004-12-08T03:50:38Z")
Joe mantis I sent you some info. let me know if want need anything else. Have a good day. [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/making-money-teaching-praying-mantis/30124.md?page=3)