# Macao wing chun-Ho Kam Ming line **URL:** \ **Category:** Wing Chun\ **Created:** [November 9, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769 "2004-11-09T15:12:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Vajramusti](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/vajramusti/32/529_2.png) [@Vajramusti](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Vajramusti)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/1 "2004-11-09T15:12:01Z")
YYlee posteda link to a Macao website several days ago.(Thanks again) The context was muay thai and wing chun. People are stuck sometimes on uneven information. In any case some of master Ho’s students have done quite well against the Thais. There are some action shots (WC vMT) in the English language section on the Tam site. In any case lete me share a posts via one of Tam’s students: Dear Joy I have seen master Tam. He is very happy to hear from you. He is no doubt Wing Chun is effective against Thai Boxing and he did actually. However, why there are many folks not believe in it because chinese martial arts normally is defined as a kindness, power in mind but not fight. you see thai boxing is different. 1. Master told me that you only strike in fist fighting with your feet moving in a straight line if you are a good fighter. 2. Chi Sau is a practice of your reaction but not always apply to the fight because your opponents don’t know Chi Sau so they will not play in this with you. 3. Chum Kiu, the second form of Wing Chun is able to knock out Thai Boxer. (we have a little introduction in original wing Chun in our web.site) Actually, it is very difficult to tell you how in words. However, we will renew the information of webpage periodically. Please wait for that. ---
**Author:** ![Wingman](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/wingman/32/202_2.png) [@Wingman](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Wingman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/2 "2004-11-10T02:03:30Z")
Re: Macao wing chun-Ho Kam Ming line Hi Joy, Can you please elaborate on the points raised below? 1. Master told me that you only strike in fist fighting with your feet moving in a straight line if you are a good fighter. So if a person is not a good fighter, he should not attack in a straight line? Why? 3. Chum Kiu, the second form of Wing Chun is able to knock out Thai Boxer. Does he mean that you have to be in Chum Kiu level before you can knockout a Thai boxer? ---
**Author:** ![Vajramusti](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/vajramusti/32/529_2.png) [@Vajramusti](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Vajramusti)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/3 "2004-11-10T04:10:49Z")
Answering wingman in brackets: Hi Joy, Can you please elaborate on the points raised below? ((Sure, I can try)) 1. Master told me that you only strike in fist fighting with your feet moving in a straight line if you are a good fighter. ((Biu ma- moving straight in)) So if a person is not a good fighter, he should not attack in a straight line? Why? ((He should work harder first in learning how to move in straight- before entering a match. Bouncy bouncy is not good wing chun-that is often the other person’s game)) 1. Chum Kiu, the second form of Wing Chun is able to knock out Thai Boxer. Does he mean that you have to be in Chum Kiu level before you can knockout a Thai boxer? ((No- an English problem- You can stilll get a knock out stepping in and punching. But the chum kiu helps you in close quarters elbows work. Of course the individual is a key variable and how much they have really learned and practiced))) : ---
**Author:** ![Wingman](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/wingman/32/202_2.png) [@Wingman](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Wingman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/4 "2004-11-10T04:38:15Z")
Hi Joy, Thank you for clearing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Nick\_Forrer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/nick_forrer/32/469_2.png) [@Nick\_Forrer](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Nick_Forrer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/5 "2004-11-10T11:21:44Z")
Re: Re: Macao wing chun-Ho Kam Ming line > Originally posted by Wingman > Does he mean that you have to be in Chum Kiu level before you can knockout a Thai boxer? As I understand it, Chum Kiu is primarily about learning to track and follow a moving target - i.e. chasing/facing the centreline (the centreline being the two dimensional plane that interconnects your c.o.g with that of your opponent). In other words squaring up to an opponent who has in some way outflanked you. To me its obvious why its necessary to have this ability in a fight - it is unlikely that the opponent will just stand there. ---
**Author:** ![russellsherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@russellsherry](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/russellsherry)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/6 "2004-11-10T23:51:25Z")
wing chun ho kam ming line hi guys i think if you think you can beat a guy doing thai boxing with chum kill if you think that and the guys good you will be beaten knowing wing chun and making it work are to diffrent things peace russellsherry ---
**Author:** ![Vajramusti](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/vajramusti/32/529_2.png) [@Vajramusti](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Vajramusti)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/7 "2004-11-11T00:54:09Z")
Russell- you can think what you want. Tam has actually beaten Thai boxers. In depth knowledge of wing chun motions and their creative applications vary widely. I just commented on yylee’s original post. For me the thread is over. ---
**Author:** ![russellsherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@russellsherry](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/russellsherry)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/8 "2004-11-11T02:16:14Z")
ho kam ming hey joy i was not talking about tam i dont know or care who he is i was talking about chum kill v thai boxers dont talk down to me again if you think wing chun can beat thai "S in the ring well yo dont know to much about wing chun but yo do trainwith augestine fong dont you see i can be smart too russellsherry ---
**Author:** ![Vajramusti](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/vajramusti/32/529_2.png) [@Vajramusti](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Vajramusti)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/9 "2004-11-11T03:32:11Z")
Must be a misunderstanding Russell. I was not talking down to you, and I dont think that I ever have. Good night. ---
**Author:** ![russellsherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@russellsherry](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/russellsherry)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/10 "2004-11-11T03:44:27Z")
marcos ho kam ming line hey old jong when a person starts with you can think what you like it is not a good way to start a disscussion just so you know.i am one of randy wilaims close friends and people leave their masters get over it russell in my first post i did not say anything bad about ho pupial i was making the point you are going to use\chum kill against thais in the ring in the ring angainst thais we are disavantged if you think we can fight like those guys you are over confident russellsherry ---
**Author:** ![ntc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/77aa72/32.png) [@ntc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ntc)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/11 "2004-11-11T16:33:13Z")
Russel: Good thai kickboxers are no doubt good fighters, but you have the same is a lot of different styles and arts… kung fu, karate, bjj… etc. Wing Chun has always had a reputation of being a very direct and effective fighting art in China, and I can definitely say that over the years, WC fighters over there (specifically Hong Kong and Macau) have had quite a bit of success against Thai kickboxers. They’ve also had their butts whipped as well… really ultimately depends on the individuals themselves, how they trained, and who they trained under. Wing Chun, especially the conceptual side of it, will provide an individual with sufficient tools to match against an opponent, Thai kickboxer or not, but whether that individual is able to apply or not is another story, and pretty much is very dependent on that individual’s own background and training. My two cents… ---
**Author:** ![Phil\_Redmond](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/phil_redmond/32/186_2.png) [@Phil\_Redmond](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Phil_Redmond)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/12 "2004-11-11T17:30:20Z")
Like NTC said good fighter sare good fighters regardless of what style. It does tough seem like people talk about Thai fighters like they’re invincible. They can be checked like anyone else. Kyokushinkai gave Thai boxers a really hard time ;). Phil ---
**Author:** ![old\_jong](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/old_jong/32/86_2.png) [@old\_jong](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/old_jong)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/13 "2004-11-11T19:15:16Z")
Re: marcos ho kam ming line > Originally posted by russellsherry > hey old jong when a person starts with you can think what you like it is not a good way to start a disscussion just so you know.i am one of randy wilaims close friends and people leave their masters get over it russell in my first post i did not say anything bad about ho pupial i was making the point you are going to use\chum kill against thais in the ring in the ring angainst thais we are disavantged if you think we can fight like those guys you are over confident russellsherry Did I say something?..😕 ---
**Author:** ![russellsherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@russellsherry](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/russellsherry)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/14 "2004-11-11T23:51:31Z")
ho kam ming hi guys, ok in hk in the 50 :S if we are going to get smart about this the hong kong wing chun people were badly beaten by thai boxers in a tounerment in marco i think they had a rematch led by a certain school who name starts with h took the challenge asked , from tang sang the presedent of the vtta at that time mr h "S pupials got smashed by the thai boxers so sifu chow zse cheuin stephan chan sifu master can"S si dai wan chung took the challenge andbeat the thai boxers and was asked to sit beside grandmaster yip which was a great honer to chow and his clan know your facts joy russellsherry close range combat austalia ---
**Author:** ![Vajramusti](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/vajramusti/32/529_2.png) [@Vajramusti](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Vajramusti)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/15 "2004-11-12T00:55:16Z")
Russelsherry- I suggest that you do not include me in your posts. I am not really interested in conversations with you. Period. I hope that is clear enough. ---
**Author:** ![ntc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/77aa72/32.png) [@ntc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ntc)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/16 "2004-11-12T01:19:28Z")
Russell… Lots of similar stories… I hear a lot of them all the time… Also, I know Stephen Chan personally as a friend, and we share stories from time to time… WC people kick some butt… WC people gets butt kicked. Honestly, not really matter who kicks whose butt or whose butt gets kicked, cause in the end, still boils down to the martial artist and not the art, nor where the artist is from. Thai kickboxers are definitely good fighters, and I have first hand experience with this, but they are not unbeatable, just like from any art. But one thing is definitely true… if you really don’t know your art well or its mechanics or its foundation/basis, then it would seem very unlikely that you would be able to use it, regardless of whether you are going against kickboxers or not. ---
**Author:** ![old\_jong](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/old_jong/32/86_2.png) [@old\_jong](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/old_jong)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/17 "2004-11-12T19:00:35Z")
Re: ho kam ming > Originally posted by russellsherry > hi guys, ok in hk in the 50 :S if we are going to get smart about this the hong kong wing chun people were badly beaten by thai > boxers in a tounerment in marco i think they had a rematch led by a certain school who name starts with h took the challenge asked , from tang sang the presedent of the vtta at that time mr > h "S pupials got smashed by the thai boxers so sifu chow zse cheuin stephan chan sifu master can"S si dai wan chung took the challenge andbeat the thai boxers and was asked to sit beside grandmaster yip which was a great honer to chow and his clan know your facts joy russellsherry close range combat austalia Sorry to intrude in your sweet bubble but!..You should be aware that your own beloved Sifu you are so proned to defend even against harmless humor… has always pretended to be part of Ho Kam Ming descendance through A.Fong!..Are you thrashing your own lineage?.. ---
**Author:** ![ntc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/77aa72/32.png) [@ntc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ntc)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/18 "2004-11-12T19:43:20Z")
Old Jong… I am a bit confused here… who were you addressing in your post… me? or… ? And if you were addressing me, could you clarify a bit cause I am totally lost and don’t understand your post. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![old\_jong](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/old_jong/32/86_2.png) [@old\_jong](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/old_jong)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/19 "2004-11-12T19:52:12Z")
Not you ntc!..One of the stiff brothers himself!..😉 ---
**Author:** ![ntc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/77aa72/32.png) [@ntc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ntc)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769/20 "2004-11-12T20:04:47Z")
Oh, OK, Old Jong… thank you for the clarification. I was a little confused there for a while… 😉 [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/macao-wing-chun-ho-kam-ming-line/29769.md?page=2)