Let's see if we can keep our cool...

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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…while addressing a controversial topic.

I’ll bet if we all really try we can answer a simple question or two and actually learn something from each other’s responses without automatically obeying the urge to get personal and fling insults, talk trash about what the guy before us posted, make degrading jokes, flame off-topic, and generally troll about.

Let’s see if we can do it. What’d’ya say? I’m totally serious. The first one to make a comment other than a direct answer to the question is a rotten egg.

And the question is, what system of MA if trained diligently for the next 10 years (let’s say only 1 hour a day) will yield the most deadly real-life combat fighter? And why?

Have at it and let’s see if we have the substance of character, knowledge, understanding and ability to make a good case for our answer and let it stand on its own without any help from the troll gods.

Fire away.

“Bruce Leroy. That’s who!”

2

Tae Bo

Sorry the set up was too good.

“Information is power”

3

It’s hard to say. Depends on what system WORKS for you. It’s like a college major out there…everyone has a choice of choosing a certain style or system to train in. And if it works in sparring then it’s most likely will work for you. So the question is do u specialize in a standup fighting art or grappling art. Do u prefer to go toe to toe to KO your opponent or do u prefer to ground and pound/choke/break/submit your opponent??? Once u know that answer u can figure out what system is best for you and train in it…of course there’s the injury factor…burn out factor…boredom factor etc…

A

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Thats the problem

Controversial topics always bring out the trolls. Thats because around here the controversial topics are posted to do just that. If you look at the largest number of threads that get out of hand it always is the NHB crowd vs. the CMA crowd. Then when no headway is made posters will begin assulting “credentials”. In order to tear down the person to get the upper hand.

5

IMO,no style can be “the most” deadly!..It always depends on the guy who’s doing it. Even if some trolls are not in agreement with that!
Does that makes me a rotten egg? :wink:

Les paroles s’envolent.
Les écrits restent!..

6

The Navy SEAL program.

“She ain’t got no muscles in her teeth.”

  • Cat
7

Old Jong has it right. It’s the fighter more than the style.

“Information is power”

8

Glock-fu.

Legends right, depends on what kind of fighter you are.

“Americans don’t have the courage to come here,” Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

9

The answaer is null. Because there is more than on martial arts system that would turnout the most deadly real-life fighter. Actually, none.

Dilligent training in Any of the MA Systems (even at an hour a day) should yield a good technician. But this is only a learning stage, at which each confrontation points-out what you don’t know. You could train simulation and against other styles but there is at least one element of the “real-life” that you won’t find in any simulation. Any simulation that contains this is not a simulation.

Training in a martial arts system trains people to not fight. It’s helpful to understand it, so that you can avoid it. Relevantly, in real-life there is chance or happenstance so all your abilities might not save you from that un determinable oops that you cannot peredict when it would occure and it coss you your life, or worse, some one elses. It is too risky to fight. So, reserve it to can’t be helpeds. You’ll know these by your avoiding strikes or swinging or striking yourself, with no awareness of it having started. This is a it can’t be helped. They can perhaps be gotten out of, whether backing out or going through but do not fight or be in a fight besides it-can’t-be-helped.

The bell ringing and your being a contestant in the ring constitutes an “it-can’t-be-helped.”:slight_smile:

In the Chinese martial arts, with an older Sifu you will have experienced other styles and started to see that as much as they can do or Know, there seems to be increasingly more that they don’t know. This is where the stereo-typical Humility of Kug-Fu comes. Although it is considered arrogance. Some have it. Some mimic it. Those who merely mimic it are arrogant~ They don’t know why they should be humble, but they know that advaced people are supposed to be, so they mimic it. Of course the techniques are lethat to devestating, but skill allows you to tailor what you do to the situation, allowing Kung-Fu to be used and “it’s too lethal,” to be an excuse used by those who don’t know any better, those afraid to find out that they can’t make it work yet or the proud who “know” that it is too lethal.~

A deadly real-life fighter can differentiate situations that can be gotten out of without punches~ and those that must be “handled” in the worst way~ for Life is Life and if it is sad that your best friend dies , it is equally sad that someone you hate dies. Life is precious and it’s significance does not diminish by the container in which it might be.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[This message was edited by No_Know on 10-16-01 at 07:48 AM.]

[This message was edited by No_Know on 10-16-01 at 07:50 AM.]

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I choose Russian Sambo. Because of it’s judo/jujitsu like throws, leg locks, grappling techniques, direct military applications, and the understanding of how the body moves and works.

Use what works not what looks pretty.

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Any system, could be deadly, or the “most deadly in a real life situation” if you trained hard enough, so who care’s what system, as long as the person training puts in his 110%.
Also if you trained hard for 10 yrs, and had to go up against someone who never trained before, you should be fine in a street situation.
Myself i dont train for fights or matches, i train for the knowlege that comes with self defence, so if i trained my sytle for 10 years, my style is the most deadly.
And if you put 10yrs into your art, then yours is the most deadly.
Something like that!
thanks

skard

Its not what goes in a man that defile’s him, its what comes out.

12

OK, take this answer as a “game of mind”, I know there probably is no answer to that question…but he said we have to answer it or we are rotten eggs so…heheeheh
I’d say Xing Yi…why? because…no, seriously, I guess it’s not by chance that like 90% of the great finalists in Nanjing’s 29’ showdown were Xingyi players, or that mots of China’s convoy escorts were Xingyi practicionners as well…
Just my two euros :slight_smile:

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Okay. As much as I’m tempted to respond to those who broke with the spirit of the thread, in keeping with the spirit of the thread I’m not going to.

Let me make an addendum to the original question:

Assume all of the “depends on the fighter” factors are moot.

What is your answer? If your answer is, “all systems are equal”, then say so and say why this is so.

“Bruce Leroy. That’s who!”

14

I see it as the deadliest being the relationship that works out the best.
When you find a girl, and your sprung and she’s not-its not gonna work(or vice versa).
But if you both are sprung(and it is a perfect match) then no one can stop you or tell you different. Kung fu is the same way. If you find the perfect system for your body, mentality and liking then its a perfect match, at this point I think it is up to the simplisticness of the style. Some arts that are mastered and are deadly fighting styles are the simple ones. Muay Thai, Choy Lay Fut exct.

So basically, I think some one can master an art and make it one of the dealiest arts by

1)making the art a perfect art for them and
2) finding a simple art that can realisticly be mastered in 10 years.

Shaolin36
Fan Tou Rui

15

Could we qualify what we mean by “most deadly combat fighter”?

Do you mean unarmed? In a military setting? In an urban setting?

Also, are we talking about “hypothetically” or “plausibly.” In other words, if you trained, say, hard core shotokan 8 hours a day for 10 years even I would grant that you are going to be dangerous.

Similarly, if you refocused a “traditional” training regime on fighting then your results after ten years will be different.

Need to make some assumptions explicit, IMO.

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Black Ops.

Has anyone seen this ridiculous pile of instructional video? It’s the silliest piece of crap, claiming to teach real world self defense, that I’ve seen in a long time. It, suspiciously, looks a lot like the latest version of Combat JKD, or Chamrac Bas. Except instead of seeing C. Clugston’s mug, the “host” is Mr. X. What kind of crap is that!?!

I’m not saying that special forces, or black ops type stuff isn’t effective, I’m just saying that “Mr.X” doesn’t show you self defense. He shows plain ambush and murder type of techniques.

For example, he shows how to sharpen the edge of a credit card and use it to defeat your attacker, but then to demonstrate, he walks past an unsuspecting bar patron and slits his throat (along both sides to make sure) when the bar tender isn’t looking. Or better yet, he walks by another patron sitting at a table, and stabs him in the neck repeatedly with a corkscrew (You’ve gotta hold his head down with the other hand, though, cause the corkscrew will pull out bits of flesh). Then there’s the classic repeatedly stab the guy coming out of the bathroom with an icepick then shove him back in to hide the body and weapon.

Then there’s the entire section about unarmed and knife fighting tactics (which has some good grappling techniques suprisingly), but the only scenarios that he shows are ambush style attacks where you take out a sentry. Sounds more like a video that vigilantes would use, not regular citizens in need of a self defense solution.

He also shows how to “split a man’s skull in half with your bare hands.” A must see for any real world self defense enthusiast :rolleyes:. A true gem to those of us who sit through crappy martial arts movies, but a huge waste of time and money for anyone who takes it seriously.

Here’s the funny thing, though. One of the takedowns that I use, I actually learned from the Black Ops video :). You’ll have to see the tape if you want to find out which one, though. I’m not giving away my “killer secrets”.

Jaguar Wong

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Nice answers so far.

But, again, let’s stay away from the subjective, “depends on the fighter – his attitude, his likes, his strengths” arguments. This isn’t the point of the question.

Assume we’re dealing with a universe of clones of “average” quality in every respect. What SYSTEM is the question here.

So what SYSTEM and why?

Remember, these are all just opinions here. If you think this is a silly question, don’t answer it. Browse a different thread or create one of your own.

The question here is what SYSTEM produces the most deadly real-life combat fighter over a 10 year period at 1 hour a day.???

“Bruce Leroy. That’s who!”

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A certain “something”

Does anybody remember “Nikita”.
Probably no one here has seen a Japanese-American production (japanese soundtrack) called “Brothers”?
…Talk about natural nasty… and “naked kill”.. maybe it’s not about the kungfu or the person but the life experience. The overself really knows what to do, practice is just an assist. A natural killer just goes straight for it.
A good question, how does one learn that?

“This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you’ll never follow me”

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F-117A Stealth fighter with nuclear payload going after Bin Laden.
:smiley:

I take a Universal Stance regarding the Martial Arts.

“Damn it’s cold out here to be practicing.”

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This is purely hypothetical. Unarmed. Generic Earth setting.

Go.

“Bruce Leroy. That’s who!”