# kung fu sparring without kickboxing **URL:** \ **Category:** Shaolin Kung Fu\ **Created:** [May 1, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085 "2013-05-01T02:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wiz\_cool\_c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wiz\_cool\_c](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/wiz_cool_c)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/1 "2013-05-01T02:48:11Z")
how do you shaolin practitioners spar? i mean you practice forms with many techniques,then when you spar ,how do you block a punch? does it relate at all to the way you block a punch in your forms? what type of fighting stance do you use? what two man drills do you do that are directly from shaolin for fighting? ---
**Author:** ![bawang](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/bawang/32/3554_2.png) [@bawang](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/bawang)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/2 "2013-05-01T03:43:01Z")
this is why you will never find the real shaolin. ---
**Author:** ![wiz\_cool\_c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wiz\_cool\_c](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/wiz_cool_c)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/3 "2013-05-01T04:02:36Z")
you are the dictionary definition of the word hater my friend ---
**Author:** ![GeneChing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/geneching/32/96_2.png) [@GeneChing](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/GeneChing)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/4 "2013-05-01T16:36:08Z")
I’ve saw more street fights and challenges at Shaolin than any where else I’ve been. And I’ve been in some rough environments. That doesn’t really answer your question, but I’m just putting that out there. ---
**Author:** ![jimbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@jimbob](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimbob)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/5 "2013-05-01T17:05:06Z")
Gene Can you tell us more? I read the part in Matt Polly’s book about the Japanese karateka coming to the village looking for a fight. Does Taguo also get challengers do you think? Are most of the challengers other CMA practitioners or do they come from other styles? It’s an interesting subject. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Jamieson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/david_jamieson/32/19_2.png) [@David\_Jamieson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/David_Jamieson)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/6 "2013-05-01T18:13:35Z")
If you make claims of martial arts and martial artistry, yo should expect that at some point, you will be challenged. It’s pretty simple math. It’s how you meet the challenge that’s important. If it’s just some belligerent little snipe, write them off. Trouble in your doorway? You gotta deal with that in no uncertain terms. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GeneChing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/geneching/32/96_2.png) [@GeneChing](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/GeneChing)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/7 "2013-05-01T21:12:11Z")
There are so many schools at Shaolin They all get challengers. Sometimes it’s rival schools. Sometimes it’s obnoxious tourists. And sure, there are challenges from other styles. It’s a martial town. Note that I don’t mean the Temple proper. They used to get challenges, but now there is so much Public Security around that place that it no longer happens. I’m talking about the private schools in neighboring Dengfeng. Although I spent more time there back before the forced relocation of Shaolin Valley, so that’s where I saw the fights. ---
**Author:** ![YouKnowWho](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/youknowwho/32/583_2.png) [@YouKnowWho](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/YouKnowWho)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/8 "2013-05-01T21:41:11Z")
If you want to be famous over night, go to - Shaolin temple, - Wudan mountain, or - Chen village, and challenge the best guys over there. Your name will be on TV, newspaper, magazine next day. People will talk about you for the next thousand years. This method is much faster than to go through local tournaments, state tournament, national tournament, and then international tournaments. ---
**Author:** ![BlackEChan](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/blackechan/32/1051_2.png) [@BlackEChan](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/BlackEChan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/9 "2013-05-02T21:18:28Z")
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1227436]If you make claims of martial arts and martial artistry, yo should expect that at some point, you will be challenged. It’s pretty simple math. It’s how you meet the challenge that’s important. If it’s just some belligerent little snipe, write them off. Trouble in your doorway? You gotta deal with that in no uncertain terms. :)[/QUOTE] Very true, in the 46 years that my Aikido Sensei has been practicing, he has never gotten into a single fight. However, it doesn’t mean that he hasn’t been in any tight situations or confrontations. As Sun Tzu says, the true master can defeat his enemy without hurting him. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wiz\_cool\_c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wiz\_cool\_c](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/wiz_cool_c)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/10 "2013-05-03T03:04:57Z")
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1227466]They all get challengers. Sometimes it’s rival schools. Sometimes it’s obnoxious tourists. And sure, there are challenges from other styles. It’s a martial town. Note that I don’t mean the Temple proper. They used to get challenges, but now there is so much Public Security around that place that it no longer happens. I’m talking about the private schools in neighboring Dengfeng. Although I spent more time there back before the forced relocation of Shaolin Valley, so that’s where I saw the fights.[/QUOTE] gene can you put up a link to your book with the challenge stories at the shaolin temple. sound like a very interesting read. i would like to buy a copy ---
**Author:** ![wiz\_cool\_c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wiz\_cool\_c](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/wiz_cool_c)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/11 "2013-05-03T03:52:03Z")
got some answers last night from my teacher, seems you shorten up all your movement from the forms in fighting. heard that before from a hung gar teacher back in the states. seems the fighting stance is hands up,like a boxer but lead is more forward,and hands are open,cause most application have a grab with one hand and strike with other. seems the blocks are similar to the standard kickboxing blocks, but to be honest,seem a bit vague. like maybe there is no real straight forward way of blocking for sparring or real fighting. grab strike, ,throw sometimes,hands up and open. ---
**Author:** ![RenDaHai](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/rendahai/32/918_2.png) [@RenDaHai](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/RenDaHai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/12 "2013-05-03T12:22:39Z")
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1227700] seems the blocks are similar to the standard kickboxing blocks, but to be honest,seem a bit vague. like maybe there is no real straight forward way of blocking for sparring or real fighting. grab strike, ,throw sometimes,hands up and open.[/QUOTE] There are many different Sects in Song Shan, any of which has equal claim to be called Shaolin Temple Kung Fu. Amongst them there are different ideas. Shaolin has a set of precepts, almost laws which when applied dictate to some extent the use of the techniques. There is no standard Shaolin Guard. And it is necessary that there is not. There are different guards that have different virtues. Depending on your build and more importantly your intent during an altercation you can select your method. One thing that is important is that in Shaolin there are static structures called ‘Shields’. These are held very close to the body, often against the body for structure. These are used when strikes are flying fast but contact is not maintained. When one has to rely on the eyes as the principle perception of attack. Secondly you have the various Shou Fa, these are hand methods common to every style of Kung Fu. They are generally reserved for when the hands become entangled. Often people try and use them to block fast punches which although possible is much more difficult than using the shields. There is a large selection of Shou Fa, although all of them are evolved from a single idea and they can all be seen as permutations of that single idea. In some forms stances are held, but in application the extended strike is only momentary, the stance is not really shortened, it is just there for a shorter amount of time. Song Mountain has 1500 recognised distinct forms. So there is not one Shaolin style but many. It is true that in the younger generations there is an over reliance on Sanda, but in the older they prefer the traditional methods. I have always seeked out the older for instruction so my style is very far removed from Sanda, but there will be many Shaolin teachers who use a sanda like method. ---
**Author:** ![MightyB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/mightyb/32/227_2.png) [@MightyB](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MightyB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/13 "2013-05-03T14:43:59Z")
Now I know this guy will be criticized by our san da friends for not holding his hands up, but watching him, you can see that he’s smooth and competent. You would do well to take this guy very seriously if for some reason you provoked him into a fight. [Shaolin Sparring](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC6NPQfZ2Lo) ---
**Author:** ![wiz\_cool\_c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wiz\_cool\_c](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/wiz_cool_c)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/14 "2013-05-03T15:14:36Z")
i thought that was sloppy as hell. could kick him in the head easily,could jab him in the face everytime he steps in,and his throws look poor too. ---
**Author:** ![MightyB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/mightyb/32/227_2.png) [@MightyB](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MightyB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/15 "2013-05-03T15:23:25Z")
Here’s the full episode with English subtitles [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLcCpDOXm0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLcCpDOXm0). Sparring starts around 20 minutes. All I can say Wiz is “bring your lunch” if you think it’d be easy to fight that guy. ---
**Author:** ![MightyB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/mightyb/32/227_2.png) [@MightyB](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MightyB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/16 "2013-05-03T15:26:56Z")
42 minute mark spars with another dude, dude has a long MA background. ---
**Author:** ![GeneChing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/geneching/32/96_2.png) [@GeneChing](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/GeneChing)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/17 "2013-05-03T15:57:19Z")
You haven’t read my book yet, wiz cool c? [QUOTE=wiz cool c;1227692]gene can you put up a link to your book with the challenge stories at the shaolin temple. sound like a very interesting read. i would like to buy a copy[/QUOTE] There is a whole thread dedicated to my book here: [Shaolin Trips by Gene Ching](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57311) Actually, I didn’t document many challenge stories in my book. I discussed a street fight I saw, and there may be a few casual references to some other conflicts, but if that’s the sole reason you want to read it, you might be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![pazman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@pazman](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/pazman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/18 "2013-05-03T19:07:12Z")
Wiz Cool C, how do you spar with your Shaolin teacher? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lucas/32/819_2.png) [@Lucas](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lucas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/19 "2013-05-03T20:26:07Z")
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1227700]got some answers last night from my teacher, seems you shorten up all your movement from the forms in fighting. heard that before from a hung gar teacher back in the states. seems the fighting stance is hands up,like a boxer but lead is more forward,and hands are open,cause most application have a grab with one hand and strike with other. seems the blocks are similar to the standard kickboxing blocks, but to be honest,seem a bit vague. like maybe there is no real straight forward way of blocking for sparring or real fighting. grab strike, ,throw sometimes,hands up and open.[/QUOTE] I personally have a ‘street’ version of my two shaolin sets I still retain. the reason i did this was for myself, so that i have built up repetition of doing these things from my own personal point of movement and feel for fighting. if you are expecting to just take these large movements and adapt them at the time you need them, i dont think thats going to be as successuful as it could be if you prepared ahead of time. for that what i did is raised the stances, tightened up my guards and shortened most of the movements, excepting long range attacks. after i started doing this i noticed a difference in my sparring after some time. imo blocking is one of those things, that is purely instinctual and you have to rely on your training and muscle memory. you arent going to have a thought process of; ‘oh i better block this’ you just do it. what your follow up is after a block really just depends on your reaction, whats available, and how quickly your body reacts and exploits an opening. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lucas/32/819_2.png) [@Lucas](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lucas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085/20 "2013-05-03T23:40:19Z")
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1227700]got some answers last night from my teacher, seems you shorten up all your movement from the forms in fighting. heard that before from a hung gar teacher back in the states. seems the fighting stance is hands up,like a boxer but lead is more forward,and hands are open,cause most application have a grab with one hand and strike with other. seems the blocks are similar to the standard kickboxing blocks, but to be honest,seem a bit vague. like maybe there is no real straight forward way of blocking for sparring or real fighting. grab strike, ,throw sometimes,hands up and open.[/QUOTE] I personally have a ‘street’ version of my two shaolin sets I still retain. the reason i did this was for myself, so that i have built up repetition of doing these things from my own personal point of movement and feel for fighting. if you are expecting to just take these large movements and adapt them at the time you need them, i dont think thats going to be as successuful as it could be if you prepared ahead of time. for that what i did is raised the stances, tightened up my guards and shortened most of the movements, excepting long range attacks. after i started doing this i noticed a difference in my sparring after some time. imo blocking is one of those things, that is purely instinctual and you have to rely on your training and muscle memory. you arent going to have a thought process of; ‘oh i better block this’ you just do it. what your follow up is after/during a block really just depends on your reaction, whats available, and how quickly your body reacts and exploits an opening. [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kung-fu-sparring-without-kickboxing/55085.md?page=2)