[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1085607]well at your age, you may as well have other stuff all hard and such… :D[/QUOTE]
BBWWAHHHHH !!!
******* !
:mad:
i hear they make drugs for that… 
The only time that I hurt my knee was when I put ankle weight on and ran long distance.
[QUOTE=Frost;1085478]i love it when you do this :)[/QUOTE]
you don’t help matter at all by encouraging me, lol…
[QUOTE=Frost;1085478] it amazes me how many issues are NOT caused by where the pain is felt but by another part of the body and the movement patterns used to compensate for that injury[/QUOTE]
the day the light went on was when I finally “got” the idea that the stuck part, area of the hypomibility (e.g. - a vertebral segment, the hip joint at some part of its range, etc.), isn’t going to hurt because it ain’t moving! - the stuff that hurts is what has to move too much / at the “wrong” time, in a relatively non-physiological manner to make up for the stuck part; thus it gets irritated / overused / inflammed; and if you go treating those symptoms as such, you will either get a recurrence there in a short while, or even more fun, something else will start hurting because you’ve shifted the load, so to speak - then you get into the game of chasing symptoms all over the place, which is an exercise in futility and gets everyone frustrated…
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1085438]…In some of your opinions, what is it that is going wrong? Is teh student genetically inferior? Is the student doing something wrong? Is the teacher teaching something wrong?[/QUOTE]
It is and always will be about the instruction, ie, the TEACHER!
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1085635]It is and always will be about the instruction, ie, the TEACHER![/QUOTE]
no its not it is and always will be about the individual and their body
your teacher can be an authentic master, if he’s not a PT or other professional and his student has problems due to bad or compensating movement patterns he is on a hiding to nothing
some people just suck. genetics, mental incompetence, dedication, etc.
It is probably something involving being over weight and sperodically working out really hard like it is going to make a difference. If you feel pain and strain in your knee, or any joint for that matter, you need to stop doing that particular thing. If it hurts, it is not natural. And if it isn’t natural you probably shouldn’t be doing it. A big fat man riding a big wide horse only on occasion when he feels inspired to do so is a recipe for injury.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1085663]some people just suck. genetics, mental incompetence, dedication, etc. :p[/QUOTE]
they are WEEK
My knees/legs are very slightly bowl-legged, but even the very slight curvature causes the insides of my knee to experience “strain” when I try to sit in a low horse stance.
This was especially bad as my first teacher and most friends/sihings/acquaintances would tell me that both my feet must be facing straight forward, perpendicular to my body.
Well, maybe I just suck and don’t have good ankle flexibility, but this HURTS my knee joints if I try to force my feet to point straight, and to be flat on both feet.
Truth be told, I stopped doing it this way because I didn’t want to screw up my knees.
This really only applies to a low horse stance, but for me, it was always more difficult than someone with perfectly straight legs (no curvature).
So I don’t really give a sh1t anymore if someone says my low horse is “bad” because no, I’m not risking destroying my knees just to make you happy. That said, I don’t really train low horse anymore at all, so this doesn’t affect me anymore.
Human knee is a weak spot by design. It takes great stress much of the time in our daily life. To stay within the context of MA training, overtraining and poor technique are two major causes of knee injury. As other forum member has mentioned, modern Wushu is by large makes students susceptible to injury because it is very demanding on their atheletic condition. IMHO, it is too demanding.
P.S. I have had an ITB injury on my left leg since 2002. It has just officially recovered this month
KC
Hong Kong
[QUOTE=SteveLau;1085682]Human knee is a weak spot by design. [/QUOTE]
What’s the best target to attack if your opponent is big, heavy, and strong? It’s not his head, or groin area, it’s his knee. It doesn’t take much to twist your opponent’s knee sideway in combat and stop the fight.
It’s a number of factors. Yes, some places teach stances that place too much stress on the knee, some places do too much air kicking with flawed technique, but also a lot of places have a poor understanding of sports medicine and combine excessive quad work with excessive hamstring stretching which is a recipe for knee pain.
As for who is to blame for causing such knee injuries in training, IMHO, the teacher and student are to be blamed most of the times. More often, the teacher is to be blamed than the student.
some places do too much air kicking with flawed technique
by Ben Gash
This is an example of knee injury cause - for example, air kicking with maximum power often.
KC
Hong Kong
Any stance should feel natural. If you insist on doing the low horse or even the horse at all, you need to have your feet pointed in the same direction the knee points. The knee only bends in one direction, and if you feel stress on it you are doing it wrong.
If you do a wide and low horse stance, and if the feet are pointed directly straight you have to bend the knee over to the side, which the knee is not designed to do. You do it enough and it will start complaining to you.
When I did CLF we turned the front foot of our bow stance slightly inward to shield from groin kicks. Unfortunately this puts a lot of strain on the outside of the knee. In Taiji the femur and the foot are always in alignment. I think this is true of Northern Shaolin as well.
Another problem is that people let their knees go beyond their toes when shifting into stance eg bow stance. Your knee should never go beyond the top of your foot as it puts forward strain on the joint (instead of downward).
This is a flexibility issue and not everyone has the flexibility to hold deep stances correctly. So it’s better to do a medium height stance that has the correct alignment.
EO
When I did CLF we turned the front foot of our bow stance slightly inward to shield from groin kicks. Unfortunately this puts a lot of strain on the outside of the knee.
by Eric Olson
Yep, the correct way to shield from groin kicks is turn our thigh, and not the foot slightly inward.
Another problem is that people let their knees go beyond their toes when shifting into stance eg bow stance. Your knee should never go beyond the top of your foot as it puts forward strain on the joint (instead of downward).
by Eric Olson
Yep, I have experimented with the bow stance before. When the knee of the front leg passes over the toes, it shift our body weight too much forward. It will strain our front lower leg and foot.
KC
Hong Kong
[QUOTE=mig;1085564]Wait until you reach 50 and we will talk. If we don’t care about our knees at early age then expect bad results when you grow older. Pain happens for a reason.[/QUOTE] Going to turn 59 tomorrow (stalking 60). Find I have a number of physical issues closing in on me, time to conserve and consolidate strengths for maximum power outburst in time of need. Agree with keeping the knees strong through conditioning (if damaged, time out). Want to be the old man (75-85) in the park demonstrating the “Dragon returns to Earth set”. 