8stepsifu,
I appologize for what I said. But look what type of discussion I have started. I really did’nt mean to affend you or anyone else I just wanted to spice up discussion and get some feed back and some knowledge… Thanks. Have a good day.
P.S
SAN SOO WORKS TOO!
[This message has been edited by JHWSS (edited 08-29-2000).]
I really hope this discussion is not seen as offensive. It seems to be very polite and informative. Reasoned debate and alll that…
Also - I met a San Soo guy once and he had some neat tricks up his sleeve - including some really tricky set ups for punches. I wouldn’t discount the style off of first observations…
Oh and one more thing 8step, (which I do perform the 8steps daily), watching video clips of san soo and actually walking into a san soo school and working out with them is two diffrent things and if you have been trainng so long you should realize that! If you ever come across a san soo school, go in and work out with the upper belts, then maybe you will be a little impressed. Some nights after class I go home with bloody noses, and bruises all over the body from blocking an attack or just working out. Also I agree that sometimes it is the individual and not just the art. I will be looking forward to your reply from this one. And once again have a nice day.
SAN SOO FIGHTING SPIRIT
[This message has been edited by JHWSS (edited 08-29-2000).]
Monkeyslap,
“what if the schools you went to weren’t very good or held back information? Then you had to extrapolate a great deal”.
To add to your argument…what if someone attended one semester at a community college, one at a state university, and one at Stanford? The student would more than likely brag on the Stanford education more than the others…Even though the student may rightfully do so, it would be the source of discrepancies, which very well may be the case in the minds of many kenpo students (whether the origins are more chinese, Japanese, or just plain old american).
Ralph Castro was a student of William Chow…not Parker’s (even though parker did give him rank).
JHWSS- Im sure the actual content is different from the showy parts that are good for demos. I’m sure its got good stuff, just look at Kathy Long. It’s just not out anything that I havent seen before. That isn’t to say that I’m good at everything I’ve seen. I just have had a lot of exposure to different kinds of techniques and mixtures thereof from my training in 8 Step and fighting other styles. Most of what people do are variations of the same thing anyway. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a move that I can’t give the 8 Step name to describe it. Eg. She did small wrap on him and he countered with chuan dong. Translated. She did a joint lock that lowered him and he did a fireman’s carry to counter.
blah blah me. me myself and I. blah blah.
Anyway more about kempo.
Did anybody else have the three part salute that corresponded with the plum flower, bamboo, and pine tree.
1.Palm together like praying. Avoidance, escaping
2.Middle, index finger, and thumb together with palms out. meaning blocking
3. Palm covering fist. Fighting. (although still covered with the peacefull palm)
anybody?
Shaolin Kenpo is pretty different than American Kenpo. It’s actually based more on the animal styles, and has allot more twist and cross stances than we seem to have in American Kenpo. Because of good organization, and a great instructor, Shaolin Kenpo has really gained some popularity recently. We’ve had some Shaolin Kenpo guys come into our school and spar or take classes. They tend to use more verticle motion than we do (we try to stay at about the same level of height unless we need to bring a weapon really low) and they use a “half moon” step through instead of a strait or “off angle/45degree” step through. And their movements seem to be a bit bigger than ours. The combination techniques don’t translate over, and they seem to look at our “point of origin” argument differently.
Hope that helps.
JWT
Hey 8Step,
Run a search for ‘Kosho Ryu Kenpo’ or Bruce Juchnik. I think you’ll find what you are looking for.
8Step,
yeah, all Ed Parker systems, Mitose schools, and allot of others do this type of salute. Some in conjuntion with a longer bow, others as a stand alone salute.
However, the order usually goes,
1.Triangle(index fingers and thumbs palm out) raised around forehead level.
2. Warrior/Scholar at chest level
3. Prayer position with fingers at sternum level and close to the body.
There are lots of interpretations as to what they all mean.
JWT
Hard punchers, man. I’m not fully informed about what kinds of power training kenpo guys go through, but I sparred with a kenpo buddy of mine just three weeks ago and when he made contact, I felt it!
Cheers!
CT
hard punches
I am a student of American Kenpo, and I’ve trained with other styles. My son does TKD. The biggest difference I see in training for power is that in Kenpo we don’t just correctly perform a strike, we have to be able to understand and explain all the principles involved. A large part of Kenpo is the study of the science of movement. This study and understanding helps to train and therefore to fight at a somewhat higher level. Your sparring partner didn’t do anything that much different than a TKD artist- he just paid attention to the principles of power.
Hey JWT…
What is the ‘point of origins’ argument?
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.
KENPO
GOOD STYLE GOOD ART,STAY WITH IT.
MANY RESPECTS, WILLOW SWORD
Whatever you think i am or want me to be, i am.
Point of Origin
American Kenpo has spend allot of time and effort into developing techniques that deliver a weapon from it’s point of origin. Simply put, you launch your weapon from wherever it is at that point.
Think about the inward block. Beginners may step back, bring their from their hip to the outside of their shoulder, and then slam it in.
That **** to the outside to slam in would violate “point of origin”. It would be quicker just to slam it in from the hip to the inside.
As you can see, that might have less power. So AK artist look for every situation where your arms and legs might be, and where, from those positions you can deliver your weapons efficiently. That’s one of the reasons AK has five or more technqiues for one attack. One for just standing there, one for standing there with your arm up, down, behind you, etc.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
“And the crowd called out for more”
They edited the word c()ck.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
That’s one thing that some people miss about “traditional” arts, most of the time you’re not going to have your hands up in a guard and be in your fighting stance. Sometimes I like to spar from a defensless posture, standing in a T stance with my arms by my side or one hand up at chest level. I’d like to see some good AK, any good tapes?
Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it’s hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L’Amour
I see…
Yeah, thats a good idea. It is actually very common to both the Northern and Southern schools I have been exposed to. How it is trained sounds different, but I’m with you on this.
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.