# kenpo biting the big one **URL:** \ **Category:** Other Related Arts\ **Created:** [January 4, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757 "2001-01-04T15:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/21 "2001-01-05T06:23:16Z")
Real Kenpo is a good art I am a Kenpo practioner. I love Kenpo, but also love martial arts in general. There is no reason to slam any true art. They all have their merits in one way or another. Some may be poor for the street, but may be good for your physical well being. Others may be exactly the opposite. Anyway, back to the topic: Unfortunately there are more frauds in Kenpo then any other style in North and Central America. After the death of Mr. Parker the number of poor instructors and self made masters in American Kenpo doubled. These were people just out to use the name to make a buck and boost their own egos. I urge you not to base your oppinion on what you see in a single studio. Especially if you are not positive of the liniage. Check out a real I.K.K.A. afiliated school to see what true Ed Parker American Kenpo is like. Also there is a somewhat new version of American Kenpo developed by Mr. Paul Mills, one of Mr. Parkers personal students. He now heads the A.K.K.I. and it is the style I now study. I have no problem with people disliking Kenpo. Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion. But I would just like that people base their oppinions on the true form of Kenpo, not the frauds that are out there. Respectfully, Eric Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/22 "2001-01-05T06:41:27Z")
test ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 6:51am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/23 "2001-01-05T06:51:51Z")
I don’t post around here very much anymore, largely because I got sick of “style wars.” Yes I have seen bad kempo. In my town you can’t go 3 blocks without hitting a kempo studio. Things IMO degenerated heavily after Ed Parkers death. People who were wearing a brown belt a few weeks before his death were suddenly black belts. Some of the locals seem to gain a couple of dan rankings every six months. Fraud is everywhere in the martial arts. I also have seen a good kempo school. They exist, but like ALL arts now, they are rare. I have trained longer than I care to admit. I would call over 95% of what I see out there as out and out BS. It is everywhere and it is in ALL the arts. BJJ hasn’t been around very long, but people with fraudulent lineage teaching BJJ for $$ are out there now and getting more prevalent every day. Buyer beware. And for the CMA guys getting high and mighty about Kempo…LO Fucking L!! In a lot of circles CMA is considered a low power, flowery non functional BS art. I personally believe there is value in it if you can get to the right people. (not an easy task) But just know that for every finger you point at someone else laughingly there are four pointing back at you. Go train. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 7:53am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/24 "2001-01-05T07:53:14Z")
Re: Northern Mantis—Jutsow Poor you…the pain your eyes have seen…the pain…your stomach felt, keeping from laughing your guts out. Disturbingly more is when some of his students move on to become “Master Sifu Sensei…” and create more of the “art”. Sorry to say that CMA is losing it’s tradition and strength. As this and future generations come along, the less they can bring to the table, mainly because the true essence of CMA will be lost. CMA cannot be whole without the essence/philosophy, forms will not do it. Today, practioners do not have the time to study under someone as they did in generations past. I, too am a culprit to this. Only a few will possess this knowledge and our only hope is not to practice the physical part, but to take time and talk to our teachers. Bruce Lee knew of this and began to evolve the art from his philosophy and understanding of martial arts, not just WC, Crane, etc… , he did this like a true artist, whether its martial, sculpting, drawing, painting, etc… Peace ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 9:12am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/25 "2001-01-05T09:12:19Z")
I have had the good fortune and the bad fortune to have studied and taught both ‘old style’ (1960’s EP/Tracy) and “shaolin Kempo’ franchise style. (hey, we all did some things we’re not proud of, and I learned how to run a school(actually, how not to) on someone else’s money) Old school comes more from Chow Kwai-Sun, who learned from his father Chow Hoon, and Chinese influence, is hard hitting, fluid, and brutal,and is very much like Hung-Ga applications,sans forms. The franchise style was totally bogus-Same gold-lame’ Grandmaster. Animal techniques completely made up-check this out, they said, “any three kicks in a row is a Dragon technique” and “the white snow leopard uses his forearms and elbows” -damn, I only wish I could show some of this dribble. They did what they called Pinan forms-only they did them kinda backwards, and their other made up forms were called “Ancient Chinese Kata number one, two, etc” their stances were completely lacking in any type of foundation, their knowledge of applied physiology, structure,connection, ging, was nonexistant. I had started as a teen in Bak Siu Lum,some Bak Mei,Wing Chun, and Tang Soo Do, then Old school Kenpo, and while I was working at this franchise style, I was already imersed in Hung Kuen. So here I was teaching wannabes wearing karate-kid headbands,and a patch for each animal plastered all over their gis,this garbage and my inner voice was screaming at me “NO! NO! NO!” It took a 12 yr old kid to wake me the $%\*@ up, when at a 'special shaolin training seminar " with 'the Master” we were led through a shaolin chi kung set,and when the entire gymnasium full of followers were doing these ridiculous movements and hissing noises, this kid looks up at me and sez, “There are grown men doing this” I looked down at him and said’ “we’re outta here-now,” well, 15 yrs later, it still makes me shudder.-But, old Kenpo, when done right, is good stuff, trouble is, now kenpo has a bad name due to these guys and everyone who left them and started offshoots of this bogus stuff. BTW Ralph Castro-who studied under Chow, also calls his art Shaolin Kenpo-don’t confuse this with the new franchise styles. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 12:01pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/26 "2001-01-05T12:01:53Z")
I AGREE WITH TENTIGERS AND THOSE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED TRADITIONAL KENPO! Please don’t judge Kenpo by recent wantabes. Since Parkers death there has been alot of BS out there. Traditional Kenpo is excellent. If in doubt come work out with me in Minnesota. You will see what the System is about… The system has roots in Shaolin but is more japanese in flavor. Rapid fire application is our trademark! You have The Power, DaveS 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 1:14pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/27 "2001-01-05T13:14:34Z")
You might be right Terry,Jon Wayne Taylor Yeah it might have been a really bad rip off of kempo.A couple of experinces like that should not have chnaged my mind in that way.I’m sorry for the post I apologize.What went through my mind when I wrote about my experience I’ll never know. Yeah kung fu has those people has the same problem so I guess everyone does also. At least you people admit it’s kempo and are proud of it.I had to drag it out of those people by asking annoying questions like “how come you have belts?I’snt actually pronounced sifu?” I think I do have that masters demonstration with those fake kempo stylists somewhere but I think one of my brothers might have taped over it though. “Always be ready” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 1:17pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/28 "2001-01-05T13:17:38Z")
What’s wrong with gold lame? There is only one Kempo and it’s Shoalin Karate Kempo and only one master and that’s Grandmaster Freddie Vallari. Please line up to the left in single file so I may dispatch all you unbelievers. Thank you :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: Damn I hurt myself again doing that. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 1:26pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/29 "2001-01-05T13:26:56Z")
\\quote:\\ But not all Kenpo guys are bad eggs. Most of the good ones realize what they are doing is an American hybrid art and are proud of it. The deluded ones think they are doing CMA or even an improvement on CMA.[/quote] I agree.I think that is what the problem is with them.Like I said before at least some of the people on this forum are proud of to be in kenpo.It’s the few deluded ones who think they have the true version of chinse martial arts(shaolin-do for example) that mess up things for everyone else.You have to be proud of your style no matter what it is. One more thing when they saw my forms one time when I was practicing at the park(big mistake) they disregarded them as wu shu since it was more fluent and thought my system was a fake. “Always be ready” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 1:43pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/30 "2001-01-05T13:43:17Z")
\\quote:\\ And for the CMA guys getting high and mighty about Kempo…LO Fucking L!! In a lot of circles CMA is considered a low power, flowery non functional BS art.[/quote] Tora not to get offended but that flowery bs art is the art same that influenced kempo and many japanese styles so they’re laughing at themselves at the same time. I understand where you’re coming from though and I’ll admit it right now but my kung fu sucks(not the style but my skills).I also admit that I might have jumped to the wrong conclusions and started making too quick of a judgement when I shouldn’t have. Don’t get me wrong though I just posted my experience.I hope we didn’t start on the wrong foot we’re all frineds here. 🙂 “Always be ready” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/31 "2001-01-05T14:10:07Z")
fred valarie his school is one of the ones i am basing my opinions on. aside from being phisicaly fit they really had nothing to offer. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/32 "2001-01-05T17:31:52Z")
Just proud One of my dirty secrets - I introduced 3 or 4 midwest Villari school owners to Bruce Juchnik, which resulted in a mass exodus from the Villari system, effectively breaking the back of that organization in my home state. Just makes you beam with pride, don’t it? Even guys who were tricked by Villari were still men enough to see the problem and adopt something better. Of ourse it had to be something Kenpo centric so they wouldn’t just reject it out of hand. So feel happy al you guys who got duped by that charlatan, there asre stinkers like me out there. (For the record, I thought some of the Villari guys were pretty decent martial artists, with fewer holes in thier skills than say, TKD or Chung Moo Doe.) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/33 "2001-01-06T00:21:44Z")
Shaolin kempo karate I have seen schools of that denomination.To me ,it looks like karate"A la sauce chinoise!"What are the origins of the style? Hawai? I have the tendencie to think that true okinawan karate like Go-ju is closer to the chinese origins and has deeper values. I have also read about the japanese style called;Shorin-ji kempo(shaolin in japanese I think)they preach a return to the shaolin heritage but it looks more like a mix of japanese styles to me. :rolleyes:By the way,they dress like monks! 😉 C’est la vie! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/34 "2001-01-06T01:50:02Z")
just a side note: when I studied 'old school chinese kenpo" I had to learn 30 self-defense techniques for yellow belt-(many with a,b,c variations, making way over 250 techs for BB) and in McDojo, they had you learn 26 techniques for Black Belt. This is why most of their BBs look like yellow belts. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/35 "2001-01-06T05:17:54Z")
KENPO ROCKS American Kenpo, Kosho Ryu, Tracy, Paul Mills, McSweeny, and Jutnick are great systems that put a lot of CMA schools to shame on the basis of teaching a practical form of pugilism from the get go. Give me a break! Those few of you that stated that kenpo sucks are realy showing where your experiance level is at. Regards ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 6:09am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/36 "2001-01-06T06:09:22Z")
Do ya REALLY think CMA hates Kempo so readily because of… JEALOUSY? LACK OF MA EXPERIENCE??? MA? Sure whatever… Kung Fu? Nope, never anything but a parasitic relationship with CMA. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 1:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/37 "2001-01-06T13:45:24Z")
Sincerest apologees if I gave any disrespect to a legitmate player If there was a Jutchnik associated school in my town…(since I didn’t open one) I would be there. I would also be were I am now. The only Jutchnik authorized teacher to show up partnered up with a commercial karate school and teaches at a mc dojo. Last I had heard. I do not think ALL kenpo/kempo sucks at all, just ALOT of it when its commercial. If the school I study in now was as commercial I would leave and maybe move to another state to find a good school with all the areas of study I now believe are important. I would not have spent so much time to pursue real education unless I had been given such a good meter stick to measure by with having worked with Hanshi Bruce Jutchnik. It had a deep impact on many decisions I have made and is definitely in line with a real study including language and culture. I think the whole “I hate that art” rants are fairly jeuvenile, and I participated in it and believe that I may have been misunderstood. I do not disrespect Ken/mpo, I have a personal dislike for certain practitioners that I have had contact with. They certainly do not reflect well upon their system with their behavior. Hey, listen to a pig. Some arts are good and some are not so good. Mostly through the faults of human beings practicing them, not the art. Just a few more pennies from a pig.. IronPig ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 10:18am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/38 "2001-01-07T10:18:12Z")
bobys mom i am glad my post recieved such a response. now i know who all you kenpo wannabes are and will ignore your posts accordingly no offene intened but kenpo/kempo sucks always has always will,but hey at least its not wing chun. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 10:44am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/39 "2001-01-07T10:44:17Z")
Oh! oh! It is not nice to pickle…I mean pick on others like that! 😃😃 :rolleyes: C’est la vie! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 11:53am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757/40 "2001-01-07T11:53:07Z")
Thanks “sow” boy for bringing out support for MA people… Pickles are usually considered condiments for people consumption. You have been chewed so “sowy” You Have The Power, Dave S 😛😛😛😛😛😛 [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/kenpo-biting-the-big-one/5757.md?page=3)