Kajukenbo Hop Gar

Diego

Ur right the crest used by kaido was a white crane crest …Costas one of my instructor in Kaju have it I saw it…He learned from kaido and also from Philip

Thats right nobody know about Kaido background .....but the basic and some chuan fa form form the kajukenbo chuan fa branch in the 70 in Montreal was from Kaido .....later we include more of Dacascos chuan fa and Won hop kuen do stuff...I mean the form like Ha kuen,Lim po and some northern sil lum 

Since one of his senior student the late Sifu endrezzi start a school in trois riviere

But the basic was the hop gar punching …but no forms from hop gar or lama
Probably forms created by kaido himself(the dragon dance and so on)…

 The Kajukenbo(emperado and Wun hop kuen do  and the chuan fa was mostly bring By Philip) keep in mind the kajukenbo system have a lot of evolution from the Hard style kenpo  to the more add of CMA in it .....Even today we could see a lot of variation in the 4 branch of Kajukenbofrom school to school

Here I talk without be sure .....Philip also said to me ....He dont know if kaido learned hop gar from Harry Ng but what he do work...

I heard from a lot of peoples
.Kaido was a big men in Montreal even if he was 5 feet 7 and 130 lbs … Know and respect in the MA circle and the night life

Steeve

[QUOTE=The Xia;820814]What is the style like? From your posts diego, it sounds just like Hop Gar to me. Do you practice Kajukenbo sets as well?[/QUOTE]

Hello Xia, it seems to me Kaido took all of his martial experiance and condensed his Kajukenbo Hop Gar into a method simple and practical for the streets and the ring…like a steamlined version of Classical Southern kung fFu fighting knowledge updated for the streets of North America. I have heard a story in Lama circles that it Lama is a style to beat everyone elses, and I have also heard that Hop Gar is learned by fighting…maybe you would go to Shaolin and Jackie Chan train for twenty years get all your stances and bag power and point sparring with some chinese wrestling…then the Hop Gar Sifu would show you ideas that you would then go out in the streets and try these particular ideas…My stepdad told me Kaido would go to Montreal bars and do this…:slight_smile:

So I would like to say Kaido cut out all the fluff but I don’t know his whole method, but I can say that it seems he only trained for realism, and one can see that within his martial forms.

I’ll write more shortly, have you had a gander at the Kaido article I linked at the start of this thread?.

okay i’m going to give you the raw on kaido

he started teaching in montreal around 72-73, retired in 80 my stepdad toldme he heard something about a student won a lotto and kaido tried to extort him and all the students were ****ed…around then is when he retired…sometime between 85 and 90 he was shot cuz he always called this guy a joke and treated him like **** and buddy capped him at a gambling house.

suppossedly he taught satans choice bikers and they funded him in the beginning then they got locked up and he started teaching teenagers and young guys…my stepdad thinks he was trying to form a gang.

my stepdad was a hippykid studied with kaido when he was a teenager and moved out to vancouver in his early twenties and picked up methods off kaido’s students he made friends with. my stepdad was scared of kaido…like i might get robbed scared.

kaido had a asain buddy chu or something like that who would always steal drugs off the party kids uno a local thug my stepdad hated him…kaido would be conducting a class and chu would walk in all aggressive and just start banging on the heavy bag while peeps are learning forms…the class was real street mentality and my stepdad couldn’t relate being vegan and into spirituality…they were all meat and potatoes greaser types.

suppossedly kaido taught in the american army and killed someone and that’s how he ended up in montreal…

local karate tough guys would come in kaido’s class talking **** and kaido would smack the **** out of them and resume teaching…he would always be on the phone yelling and my stepdad remebers being frightened one time when kaido was on the phone talking about i’ll kill you mother****er

kaido liked cocaine

kaido loved to train

when my stepdad left kaido’s class he looked at all the kung fu schools out there and couldn’t relate so he went into dance.

kaido’s black belt test was you stand in horse and close your eyes arms up in prayer and he side kicks you until you fall down…if you cry you fail.

kaido would always stomp your gut if you complained doing sit ups…if you complained or went halfass while sparring he would wait until an hour later and then come up when you’re doing sit ups and stomp your guts with hate in his eyes…my stepdad said when he was 18 kaido scared the **** out of him, and a lot of people took what he said…eventually he was shot.

i like kajukenbo…

some of it was inspired by Lau Bun…adriano emperado supposedly had some contact with him.

[QUOTE=Steeeve;820835]Diego

Ur right the crest used by kaido was a white crane crest …Costas one of my instructor in Kaju have it I saw it…He learned from kaido and also from Philip

Thats right nobody know about Kaido background .....but the basic and some chuan fa form form the kajukenbo chuan fa branch in the 70 in Montreal was from Kaido .....later we include more of Dacascos chuan fa and Won hop kuen do stuff...I mean the form like Ha kuen,Lim po and some northern sil lum 

Since one of his senior student the late Sifu endrezzi start a school in trois riviere

But the basic was the hop gar punching …but no forms from hop gar or lama
Probably forms created by kaido himself(the dragon dance and so on)…

 The Kajukenbo(emperado and Wun hop kuen do  and the chuan fa was mostly bring By Philip) keep in mind the kajukenbo system have a lot of evolution from the Hard style kenpo  to the more add of CMA in it .....Even today we could see a lot of variation in the 4 branch of Kajukenbofrom school to school

Here I talk without be sure .....Philip also said to me ....He dont know if kaido learned hop gar from Harry Ng but what he do work...

I heard from a lot of peoples
.Kaido was a big men in Montreal even if he was 5 feet 7 and 130 lbs … Know and respect in the MA circle and the night life

Steeve[/QUOTE]


kaido taught HopGar to his student’s in Montreal from 1972-1980, he retired at the age of 40, and was killed 6 or 7 years later. He taught " In the Hop Gar there
were the following forms, Soft & Hard (Tai Chi like), Two person form, and 4
breathing exercises. There were 44 hop gar techniques at the beginning then
another 16 later on. There is nobody that has them all (I checked). Why we
didn’t record them all back then I don’t know. Video was just beginning and
it was reel to reel." quote from Philip Gelinas one of Kaido’s top students

Steeve Ifound this old quote on Kaido’s material, have you seen all of these…is the soft hard tai chi like set mentioned the one Philip does in the park video when he shows all the sets and the steaff and sword forms?..he moves slow for the first half like tai chi and then speeds up…Do you know if that has anything to do with the “Needle in Cotton” classical form?.

i know three of the breathing methods and my stepdad has two or three more…horse stance fingertips point to each other press forward at chest…inhale press palms into each other but don’t touch moving forward at chest…inhale and repeat three times etcetc inhale pull fists to stomach bend forward hold…raise erect pull arms back at shoulder exhale press hands to sides…pull in inhale, press to sides exhale do three times and start over.

two

cat stance press wrists together cross hands up double tan sao style inhale, cross hand down double knife hand style exhale, do three times, rear pak sao/lead claw press at chest, thread pak sao hand up claw wrist…wind arms back, pull up center and hit bottom of elbows to chest exhale HUT press palms center forward slowly facing each other continue exhale…ssssssssssss…claw palm on top of pak sao backhand and press down to groin turning to horse, fingertips stop at groin and fingertips now face each other hands pronated…turn to cat stance on other side and repeat.

three
horse stance pak sao in and forward at chest single hand three times and then you do hook hand in at chest tan sao at face, knife hand at face, tiger claw grab outside grip and chamber and repeat with your other arm…nonworking hand sits supine backhand on top of thigh.

[QUOTE=hskwarrior;820874]i like kajukenbo…

some of it was inspired by Lau Bun…adriano emperado supposedly had some contact with him.[/QUOTE]

:slight_smile: yep, JDHowland on this forum has knowledge of these topics and knows old peeps from both styles…i’ll pm him to peep your post:).

Steeve, i forget to ask…Philip said kaido’s style is in no danger of disappearing, he mentioned his Kaido’s daughter studies…Do you know how many people out there teach his system?.

One last thing Steeeve…is that two person form Philip mentioned the one Peter and Roy do in the tournament demo with kaido and four students in dark suits?.

Cheers,
'ames

Steeeve i was just talking to my stepdad, and he brought up that Emperado came to Montreal for kaido’s tournament and he came a few times, my stepdad had dinner with him and his wife…JDHowland mentioned that Emperado knows some of the old school White Crane guys…wouldn’t he know something about the origin of Kaido’s technique?.

Thanks for the answer. I looked at the article from the opening post. I couldn’t read all of it because the bottom was cut off but it was still interesting. Did Kaido learn Hop Gar from Ng Yim Ming?

Steeve, i forget to ask…Philip said kaido’s style is in no danger of disappearing, he mentioned his Kaido’s daughter studies…Do you know how many people out there teach his system?.

Diego

From what I know …Some guys teach the kaido stuff incorporated in teir Kaju…

One guy in Ontario John I know very well this guy ....teach the forms of kaido and the Emperado Kaju(hard style kenpo)He learned it mostly from Phillip annd trained also with Kaido...

maybe 7 years ago Roy have a school in Montreal dont know if he teach again

Steeve

i like kajukenbo…

some of it was inspired by Lau Bun…adriano emperado supposedly had some contact with him.

Frank

William Chow had contact with GM Lau Bun some story also talk about Emperado have also contact …Probably just meeting …this guys was friend with Ming lum Who trained with GM Lau Bun in SF

Emperado trained under Chow before start the Kajukenbo …

In the 50 and 60 He supposed from the history of Kaju to have studied some CMA at the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Ass…at this time in Hawaii the great Sifu was Sifu Lum Dai Yong of the sil lum fut ga…Sifu Lau yeu Cho of hung gar and Mah Kin of CLF

From the history…Prof Emperado receive a award from GM Ho Ngau of CLF appointing him as a advisor and representative of CLF…

Steeve

[QUOTE=Steeeve;821252]Steeve, i forget to ask…Philip said kaido’s style is in no danger of disappearing, he mentioned his Kaido’s daughter studies…Do you know how many people out there teach his system?.

Diego

From what I know …Some guys teach the kaido stuff incorporated in teir Kaju…

One guy in Ontario John I know very well this guy ....teach the forms of kaido and the Emperado Kaju(hard style kenpo)He learned it mostly from Phillip annd trained also with Kaido...

maybe 7 years ago Roy have a school in Montreal dont know if he teach again

Steeve[/QUOTE]

i was entertaining the idea of saving some money and mastering my basic and taking a plane to learn more of kaido’s forms…is montreal a good bet or would that be expensive…I would love to find a class oppossed to spending thousands of dollars on private lessons uno:)

[QUOTE=The Xia;820976]Thanks for the answer. I looked at the article from the opening post. I couldn’t read all of it because the bottom was cut off but it was still interesting. Did Kaido learn Hop Gar from Ng Yim Ming?[/QUOTE]

I’ll write more about the technical aspects from what i know soon, i’m studieing for my fitness exam…just learned something

before i would step and throw my fist for a boxer rear cross

in order to throw a cross you have to flex the shoulder…to flex the shoulder you have to stabilize your pecs and lats

step into left bow, stabilize your right pecs and lats and just tighten your knuckles as your arm swingslams into the bag…nuts!!! this morning i figured out how to make my punch two to three times more powerfull by applying fitness theory…before i knew i could knock someone out with my fist as i could cut you with a hook…now i know i can generate enough to kill during a ground and pound.

Diego

If you want to learn Kaido style …Go to see Philip:)

Steeve

[QUOTE=Steeeve;821263]i like kajukenbo…

some of it was inspired by Lau Bun…adriano emperado supposedly had some contact with him.

Frank

William Chow had contact with GM Lau Bun some story also talk about Emperado have also contact …Probably just meeting …this guys was friend with Ming lum Who trained with GM Lau Bun in SF

Emperado trained under Chow before start the Kajukenbo …

In the 50 and 60 He supposed from the history of Kaju to have studied some CMA at the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Ass…at this time in Hawaii the great Sifu was Sifu Lum Dai Yong of the sil lum fut ga…Sifu Lau yeu Cho of hung gar and Mah Kin of CLF

From the history…Prof Emperado receive a award from GM Ho Ngau of CLF appointing him as a advisor and representative of CLF…

Steeve[/QUOTE]

Hi Steeve and Diego.

I don’t know of any direct connection between Lau Bun and Emperado. There are lots of connections between Island Kaju people and CLF.

Here’s what I know. WARNING: this is going to get convoluted.

San Fransisco based White Crane master Quentin Fong spent a lot of time in Hawaii. In fact, he was just there last summer with Ming Lum. For about forty years he has been an advisor to some organizations of “Hawaiian Kenpo.” Many of these Kenpo practitioners were former Kaju men. Fong learned Lau Bun’s CLF from Ming Lum.

Cheuk Tse (White Crane, Hop Ga, CLF) moved to the islands in the '60s and opened a school as Harry Ng’s representative. He taught at the same place (Hawaii Chinese Buddhist Assoc.) where the Chinese Physical Culture Association that Steeve mentioned had met for decades. The CPCA and Cheuk’s Kung Fu Assoc. didn’t mix but Emperado may have been influenced by both groups. Cheuk Tse taught Willy Chow’s son for a time. During classes Chow Sr. used to pace around the parking lot outside. We used to joke that he was there to steal our training methods. Emperado and Cheuk Tse were close friends. It was Cheuk who arranged to have Emperado promoted to 10th degree professor rank by Cheuk’s CLF master Ho Ngau. I emailed Emperado last year (through a senior Kaju student) to ask him whether he had incorporated any of Ho’s CLF into Kajukenbo. He replied that he didn’t really learn from Ho but was given the appointment as a representative at Cheuk’s reccomendation for equivalent experience. Cheuk and Emperado shared a lot of info.

Hope this helps.

John

http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/sijo.html

" About the same time he started a serious study of various kung fu systems. He studied under Professor Lau Bun of the Choy Li Fut system and Professor Wong of the Northern Shaolin system. Several years later these professors and the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Association awarded Emperado the title Professor 10th degree. Also at this time he was awarded a certificate by Grandmaster Ho Gau of Hong Kong appointing him as a advisor and representative of the Choy Li Fut system. This certificate was signed by Grandmaster Ho Gau, Professor Cheuk Tse, and the directors of the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Association. This was truly an accolade when one considers that the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Association was the first kung fu school outside of China."

http://www.absolutemartialarts.net/id12.html

The Only Real Non Chinese Student Lau Bun Truly Taught Went By The Last Name Of Kamaka…peter Or Henry …something Like That. But He Was A Hawaiian Too.

[QUOTE=jdhowland;821604]Hi Steeve and Diego.

I don’t know of any direct connection between Lau Bun and Emperado. There are lots of connections between Island Kaju people and CLF.

Here’s what I know. WARNING: this is going to get convoluted.

San Fransisco based White Crane master Quentin Fong spent a lot of time in Hawaii. In fact, he was just there last summer with Ming Lum. For about forty years he has been an advisor to some organizations of “Hawaiian Kenpo.” Many of these Kenpo practitioners were former Kaju men. Fong learned Lau Bun’s CLF from Ming Lum.

Cheuk Tse (White Crane, Hop Ga, CLF) moved to the islands in the '60s and opened a school as Harry Ng’s representative. He taught at the same place (Hawaii Chinese Buddhist Assoc.) where the Chinese Physical Culture Association that Steeve mentioned had met for decades. The CPCA and Cheuk’s Kung Fu Assoc. didn’t mix but Emperado may have been influenced by both groups. Cheuk Tse taught Willy Chow’s son for a time. During classes Chow Sr. used to pace around the parking lot outside. We used to joke that he was there to steal our training methods. Emperado and Cheuk Tse were close friends. It was Cheuk who arranged to have Emperado promoted to 10th degree professor rank by Cheuk’s CLF master Ho Ngau. I emailed Emperado last year (through a senior Kaju student) to ask him whether he had incorporated any of Ho’s CLF into Kajukenbo. He replied that he didn’t really learn from Ho but was given the appointment as a representative at Cheuk’s reccomendation for equivalent experience. Cheuk and Emperado shared a lot of info.

Hope this helps.

John[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting John:).

Steeeve,my intuition is pointing towards Hawaii:cool:…Kaido got his Kaju directly from Emperado, Emperado went to Montreal to certify Kaido as 5’th degree black belt and my stepdad went out for dinner with him so Emperado would definatly remember Kaido. Did Kaido get his Kaju in Hawaii or San Francisco…I’m pretty sure my stepdad said kaido came to montreal from san fran… I’m guessing he got kaju in Hawaii and hop ga in SF…if this is correct…maybe he got some white crane from Emperado’s Hawai peeps??..

Guys

Thats very interesting what you said

In Kajukenbo we have 4 branch …first one is the Emperado method (kenpo ),the Chuan fa was created by Al Dacascos and De La Cruz putting more emphazize in the Bo of Kajukenbo… a lot of forms was add from northern sil lum style and southern…but in fact the form was mostly add by What Dacascos learned when he came to USA leraning from Jack Man wong ,Paul Eng(Kam Yuen) and Buck sam kong…Dacascos created his own style call Wun hop kuen do later
WHKD is the third branch and its a evolotion of the chuan fa and the Tum pai branch add mor taiji .pakua more internal arts…

All the branch came from the emperado method…the Punch counter,grab counter ,club counter and knife counter in each branch are variations of the Emperado method Counter(punch,grab and so on)…Unique to the Emperado method is the Alphabet (advanced punch couter with some two men attack counter)
In the chuan fa ,Whkd and tum pai we have no more the Palama sets(forms) who are really kenpo karate form influenced by japanese art.In chuan fa and WHKD The form Ha kuen is a version of the 4 first palama sets put together…

Diego the last visited of Emperado in Montreal was in 1984…I have a video of the seminar With Prf Emperado…

Steeeve