All square and not much of anything else.
You make some big accusations! How do you know which forms he knows? How do you know which forms he teaches? Do you know the whole story about Al Cheng?
Once again, it seems your only purpose here is to attempt to destroy the reputation of Mr. Funk. That makes your inquiries suspect.
I know what forms he teaches cause I asked him. The only forms he teaches are the one’s listed on his webpage. I asked about the ones he does not teach and he said you don’t need to know them, so in other word’s he could not be bothered learning them! I am not a student there, I was only asking questions! Come on his rep is not all that great! When I searched him on the web and other forums I found more negative stuff than positive and also from talking to locals since I moved here few have positive things to say about him.
All I know about AL Cheng is what I read on this forum, and that is he was not a graduate of WHF.
[QUOTE=nfboy;1038732]…All I know about AL Cheng is what I read on this forum,…[/QUOTE]
Holy heart failure, Batman!
What ever you do, don’t click on any links to blogs, web-sites, etc… chances are it will only get worse.
So according to you guys all I need to do is learn 3 or 4 mantis open hand forms and maybe one or two weapon forms and I am a Sifu!! Really !! That’s it?? Wow I should of took up mantis yr’s ago, I would be a great great grandmaster by now. This would never happen in hung gar, wing chun, bak mei or karate you are not a teacher until you know all the forms/katas and you graduate in front of your sifu or sensai and are given the certificate to prove it.
So answer the question please!! Why so many 7* forms? What are the original forms? If you don’t need to know them all why did some one create them? What one’s do you decide to learn? Aren’t they all important? So what makes a person a mantis sifu?
so the sign of a good teacher if how many forms he knows and can teach? :eek:
golly all along i thought martial arts were about fighting:rolleyes:
Jon funk is a highly respected mantis guy. Like his way or not he has real kung fu training and teaches core mantis forms.
Some teachers reduce the number of forms to suit and weapons get dropped by some teachers as most students will not have the time to develop real skill with more than one or two weapons.
btw. 5th son staff is the core staff form of 7 * mantis and has great technique in it. Some lines also don’t have some weapons such as 2 handed sword.
The bottom line is if you don’t like the teachers, style, method of teaching then don’t waste anyones time and find something else.
As a teacher, if the student does not have faith in my mehtods then they may as well leave as longterm they will not develop.
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
oh a couple more points…
What makes a person a sifu = having students
what makes a good sifu = skill, experience, knowledge
what makes you a sifu in “who flung do” style mantis = permission from your sifu or you out lived thes rest of your family. (or started your own 
)
You can only ask questions based a a certain family style. Each Mantis family have different methods and forms (but core ideas and forms). Nobody is owner of all families… (funny thats the same with Hung Gar as well.
Certificates and sashes, photos and websites do not mean equal skill.
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
Nfboy,
“Well that is a lot of forms on that list, way to many for one person to every know or have time to practice. Why so many? No you don’t need a paper showing that you are a sifu but i would think you need some evidence?”
Well jeez..that was a pretty big about face!(and yet a few posts later..you villify the man yet AGAIN!!). You’ll never be a sifu if you vacillate so often..disrupts the chi. First you say he’s a fraud, then you say “oh well..that’s alot of forms”(indicating that your previous standard was unfair.
I want to relay a story and in doing so, my stance on the “more is not better” idea.
I was talking to a sifu once of a well know southern shaolin style. We were talking about forms. I mentioned a form which is traditionally 3rd on the list of what is known as the “4 pillars”.
He grew impatient and raised his voice and said “You only need ONE!! You can beat 90 % of the guys in the street if you knew only F- H–(the name of the form”.
Great. And you know what? It’s probably true.
BUT…
the flipside to that coin is..then you only know ONE form!! What happens if and when you fight someone in real life(or even sparring for that matter) who is either a sifu(in that style or another style) or even a highly trained practitioner?
Ah..well then the dynamic changes a bit now doesn’t it?
While it’s true that there are those who collect forms and brag “oh yeah..well I know over 70 forms” and lets just say perhaps this guy learned them but can perform them rather slovenly.
The prevailing herd mentality in kung fu is that lots of forms= poor performance in each.
Well..while I don’t deny that there are kung fu people who fit that criteria, its analagous to saying "if you get really good at addition, forget about getting good at subtraction, multiplication and division too–you are just a “math collector” "..
Needless to say I think that is irrational. There are plenty of sifus who know more than one form(or even more than 10) and know them WELL..
Pointing to the lack of people who know more than a few forms well as it being somehow an impossible hill to climb isn’t because it’s impossible, it’s because there aren’t as many people dedicated to being able to rise to the standard.
Hi mantis108
“Nowadays, my focus is but 5 forms or so and of course the 64 Shou Fa. Honestly, good Kung Fu isn’t about forms.”
Would you mind listing those 5 forms?
[QUOTE=nfboy;1038738]This would never happen in hung gar, wing chun, bak mei or karate you are not a teacher until you know all the forms/katas and you graduate in front of your sifu or sensai and are given the certificate to prove it.
So answer the question please!! Why so many 7* forms? What are the original forms? If you don’t need to know them all why did some one create them? What one’s do you decide to learn? Aren’t they all important? So what makes a person a mantis sifu?[/QUOTE]
Now you ask some legitimate questions. Others have provided great answers. I’ll try to provide a few.
This would never happen in hung gar…
That is incorrect. I have a friend who is authorized to teach Hung Gar by his sifu and his sigung. The sigung is a very well known master of Hung Gar. Everyone would recognize the name if I mentioned it, but I will keep this all anonymous since I didn’t get my friend’s permission to talk about this.
My friend runs his own school (about 80-100 students), he is allowed to use the title “Sifu”. Yet he has never learned the Ten Forms Fist or Iron Wire.
So, it is not only PM that uses this policy.
Why so many 7* forms?
Because many have added their own take on the art. Luo Guang Yu added several forms as he was influenced by other instructors during his time working with the Jing Wu Association. Wong Hon Fan changed some of the forms he was taught. Perhaps some forms were invented as teaching transitions from one set to another. One lineage of 7* believes that forms were adopted in from Lost Track Boxing.
Most things change and grow with time, 7* PM is no different.
What are the original forms?
As I noted earlier in a post, the earliest historically accepted text that names the mantis core forms lists: beng bu, luanjie and fenshen bazhou. Though as Mantis 108 mentioned there were the 64 shou fa as well.
If you don’t need to know them all why did some one create them?
Perhaps for no other reason than artistic expression. Or it could be that they thought they could improve on what they had learned. So, some agreed they were good additions and kept them, others perhaps felt they were unnecessary and discarded them.
What one’s do you decide to learn? Aren’t they all important?
You learn the ones your Sifu tells you to learn based on what he thinks is important for YOU. Some may be taught Da Fanche or Xiao Fanche, great forms for those who are tall and have long arms. Certain Sifu emphasize different aspects of the art, so they teach the forms that meet that need.
My instructor told me along time ago that due to the repetitiousness of the 7* forms it is not really necessary for the average student to learn them all. Single Thrust Flower, considered a higher level set by some, has little over Beng Bu, considered by some to be a beginning level set.
In 7* the same combinations and theories are repeated over and over through many, many sets.
Never mind the politics. The issue of the number of forms is an interesting one. Besides the weapons forms, which empty hand forms encapsulate the essence of 7* Praying Mantis? You wouldn’t think that more than half a dozen is necessary.
One should never look down on “beginner sets”. There is a good reason they are the foundation practices.
Thank you for all that info. am sorry if I came off as rude and hard on Sifu Funk, but when I asked him this stuff he was easily offended and came across angry with me that I asked /e-mailed him questions.
nfboy,
quite honeslty you dont deserve to be taught, and I hope Jon doesnt enroll you.
Not to sound to harsh but all you have done on this board was to join (9 posts) with your own negative opinion about him, which was already set in your head, then asked our opinion and when it wasnt what you wanted to hear and you didnt want to listen to the reason he is a good teacher, you spouted off again attacking his teaching, credibility and knowledge and acted very condesending.
I dont know what you were taught for 10 years by your old hung gar shifu but it sure wasnt respect!
I am sure Jon doesnt need a student with this attitude like yours this will not make or break his school if dont join, so do yourself and us a favor and find someome to learn from that you can respect from the git go.
If you came into my school only once, asked a couple questions didnt touch hands with me or see me move or fight then came onto a public forum and tried to
discredit me and base an opinion on your lack of knowledge, I would not teach you either, there are too many willing student to give my time to.
Earthdragon,
Don’t be such a pansie! Tell us how you REALLY feel. 
Yeah, I agree with you. I have had peeps that already had all the answers (:rolleyes:) approach me about lessons. I wonder if when I blew them off they went on a chat forum and filleted me?
Though at least his questions brought up an interesting discussion on forms.
Ok what ever. I have no interest in training with him. He did not impress me with his skill or his self righteous attitude. As for you two who cares ..mooyingmantis I have seen your clips on youtube you need to drop 80 pounds ..just what kung fu needs another fat , middle aged , white Chinese wannabe. Earth dragon, jesus I bet your white also. As for my hung gar, at lease my teacher taught class and did not sit on his ass like jon the ******* funk and get *****y when I asked questions. Thing is I know the difference between **** and good kung fu and have trained with some of the best hung gar and thai boxers around.
Jon Funk is **** as I am sure you two clowns are
LOL! And there you have it folks, another troll revealed for who they are. I hope he turned off the light and closed the door as he left.
Why do our moderators allow guys like this to try and ruin an instructors reputation? I would have deleted the thread after his first lame post. Does this forum have a moderator?
BTW, I am past middle-aged and very proud of my Native American heritage. No Chinese wannabe here. 
As for the 80 pounds, I am sorry but I will not part with my left testicle just to lighten up 80 pounds.
My feelings are always so hurt when anonymous people discredit me. BOOHOO! I wonder if we will ever see his anonymous skills on YouTube?
So you two clowns can give me **** but if I give it back I am a troll. Screw you both. Next time you are in Van. look me up and show me your fat ass mantis moves tonto.
nfboy
sorry kid truth hurts to hear sometimes, but in any event have a wonderful day, and dont worry too much about what people say, kung fu isnt for everybody, try boxing take care:D
Funny you two guys call your selfs sifu’s and you have acted and treated me like crap for asking questions. I guest the standards are real low for what makes a sifu in mantis. At lease with boxing I know I will lean stuff and arrogant self righteous people like your selfs and JFunk will get weeded out pretty fast. Seen it a hundred times so called sifu’s getting there ass handed to them by novice boxers.
O ya I have also received several p.m’s telling me that you do need to know all the forms to be taken serious as a sifu and that Mr.Funk has a terrible rep.