Ironfist, a question on gains...

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
1

I’ve been working out using this program for three months:

Monday:

Lat Pulldowns: 5 sets/5 reps
Bench press: 5 sets/5 reps
Bicep Curls: 4 sets/ 5 reps
Quad Extensions: 5 sets/ 5 reps
Ham Culs: 4 sets/ 5 reps

Friday:

Bench Press: 5 sets/5 reps
Dumbell Rows: 5 sets/5 reps
Squats: 5 sets/5 reps
Deadlifts: 5 sets/5reps

I didn’t find myself getting overly sore, so I figured I wasn’t overtraining or anything. I would like to mix things up a bit now though and want to use Destrous9’s M/W/F program. My goal is to gain mass, the more the better.

Do I need to tweak the new program so it’s Higher wieght, lower reps? I know I’ve gotta eat alot, but what exactly is the best lifting style for mass?

Thanks in advance! :wink:

“Master, here is a stick. Please beat me for my insolence.” - KC Elbows

2

IMO

for big D’s plan, you can keep the number of sets - increase to six instead of four if you wish, but I wouldn’t go higher than that - and lower the reps a little (you want to keep them in the 5 - 8 range) and increase the weight accordingly. Also, how long are you resting between sets?

Also, you may be able to work your body parts more than once a week, like monday and thursday for the monday workouts, and wed/sat for the bicep/back days. The legs should be cool with one day a week.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn’t mean I’m serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

3

I’m sorry dude, I’ll get to your question pretty soon. I’m overloaded with projects recently…

Iron

4

Dosen’t anyone else here know about lifting for mass?

“Master, here is a stick. Please beat me for my insolence.” - KC Elbows

5

Hey Scarletmantis,
Check out the thread titled " Is the way I lift"
Go into the 2nd and 3rd page, Ironfist gave me a workout there for mass and my body seems to be responding. Granted that anychange in your normal workout will boost a response from your body because it is a shock, but I must say that I do like the high intensity workout.

Thanks,

Shaolin36

6

Sweet, I’m only 3 days late with this reply :slight_smile:

Alright dude, let’s answer your question.

I’ve been working out using this program for three months:

Three months? What kind of results are you seeing?

I didn’t find myself getting overly sore, so I figured I wasn’t overtraining or anything. I would like to mix things up a bit now though and want to use Destrous9’s M/W/F program. My goal is to gain mass, the more the better.

Generally speaking, mass workouts tend to leave you sore, but soreness is relative. Some people get really sore, others don’t. Also keep in mind that soreness is NOT an indicator of an effective workout.

I’ve never heard of Destrous9’s program.

[i]Monday:

Lat Pulldowns: 5 sets/5 reps
Bench press: 5 sets/5 reps
Bicep Curls: 4 sets/ 5 reps
Quad Extensions: 5 sets/ 5 reps
Ham Culs: 4 sets/ 5 reps

Friday:

Bench Press: 5 sets/5 reps
Dumbell Rows: 5 sets/5 reps
Squats: 5 sets/5 reps
Deadlifts: 5 sets/5reps[/i]

Try this split instead:
M: Chest/Triceps/Front and side delts
W: Back/Biceps/rear delts/forearms
F: Legs.

That works all the like-muscles together (ie. all pulling muscles on wednesday, all pushing muscles on monday, etc.)

Do I need to tweak the new program so it’s Higher wieght, lower reps?

I would say probably 6-10 reps on most exercises.

I know I’ve gotta eat alot,

Yep, 1g protein per pound of bodyweight per day, and then enough calories other than that to cause a surplus in your body.

Thanks in advance!

You’re welcome in late :slight_smile:

Iron

7

Go into the 2nd and 3rd page, Ironfist gave me a workout there for mass and my body seems to be responding.

Good, I’m glad it’s working.

Granted that anychange in your normal workout will boost a response from your body because it is a shock

This is very true. Your body adapts to things, including workouts. Changing your workout around is a sure way to shock your body. That’s generally why you get sore when you start working out after taking a long time off; because you’re body became used to not working out, the workout was a shock to it.

If you’ve been on one workout for a while, changing things up every 2-3 months can shock your body into new growth.

Iron

8

Ironfist, you really need to change your name to Joe Weider-LOL

Shaolin

9

Ok I didn’t really check this thread out because it was addressed to ironfist but I just wanted to elaborate on the “changing things up, and shocking your body” comments. This is absolutely true, but what I find is that people don’t really grasp what is happening and make changes too soon.

I’ll try to brief and concise as the explanation can get quite verbose. First of all let’s take someone who has never worked out regularly in their life before. We will also focus on one exercise (bench press) as an example. When you first hit the iron you are obviously going to be weak, and you struggle with the weight and let’s say you bench press 100lbs the first time. You are sore for 4-5 days because there are many parts of your body that help stabilize and work to lift that weight that you probably never used before.

Now that is day one and you move on to work on bench press again maybe a week later. You find that 100lbs is easy to lift now and you can go up to 130lbs. You are extremely happy because you think your muscles are getting much stronger. This isn’t really the case but I’ll explain that part in a sec.

Bench press day 3 comes and now you find 130 isn’t all that tough so you go up to 145lbs. You now are sore for only a couple of days after you work out.

Day 4 comes and 145 is still kinda hard but you find you can lift 150lbs.

Day 5 comes and you can lift 155lbs.

Now in this scenario you had quick gains when you started but then they tapered off so that your gains were minimalized. Why is this? First of all the first few times your body is training a new movement your muscles aren’t really working to their maximum potential. The main reason you are limited to 100lbs day one is because of your nervous system which controls your bodies motor skills isn’t used to that much stress being applied to your body so it limits the amount you can lift. As day two comes all your motor skills have made many adjustments to the new form of lifting weight and allow your muscles to lift more weight. On day three your body has only some minor neurological adjustments to make so that your body is now “in-tune” with the form of bench-pressing and isn’t in need of more adjustment after that day.

Day 4 comes and now that your neurological system is no longer a limiting factor your muscles are being fully used and now THEY are the limiting factor. Basically now all the gains are from increase in muscle strength which is why gains aren’t as fast as initially thought. This is where a lot of people decide to “switch” things up and “shock” their body into new exercises. But what this basically does is start the neurological adjustment process again with the new movement. If you continue with your small gains each week those are true muscular vs neurological gains and should be continued until you hit an absolute plateau. At this point usually the best thing to do is just take a week off and do no exercise. Rest is always the most critical factor in bodybuilding.

So basically as long as your strength is increasing you should not change and when you stop increasing in your lifts try taking a week off instead of switching exercises. After your rest period if you find that you’re going to the gym and still not making gains THEN it is time to switch things up.

One disclaimer about this is I am strictly talking about a work-out ROUTINE. That doesn’t mean you can’t mix in plyometrics or change up cardio or amount of sets, reps, weight from time to time. But the fundamental movements that apply to each muscle group should remain somewhat constant throughout your routine.

I know this is a lot to read but I thought this would be the best way to explain the neurological process your body goes through when beginning to work out. If any part is unclear please ask questions. Thanks.

10

In a nutshell, your body will make its fastest gains in your first year of lifting, after that it gets more technical- you have to play with your diet , your routines, you rest between sets and so on.

11

ElPietro, excellent explanation.

Some people do the same thing for 4 years and wonder why they stopped making progress 3 and a half years ago.

Iron