# In Park's defense **URL:** \ **Category:** Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts\ **Created:** [September 8, 2002, 10:09am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857 "2002-09-08T10:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![paperweight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@paperweight](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/paperweight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/61 "2002-09-16T16:34:37Z")
BT Yes it is a free country and you are free to do as you wish. But I would call the school and ask if they accept challenge matches. Just showing up could cause much problems for you and them. And I don’t think they will view your challenge as “friendly.” After all the posts you have writen the word “friendly” is only a recent thing. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeySlap\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@MonkeySlap\_Too](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MonkeySlap_Too)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/62 "2002-09-16T17:20:12Z")
HEY BT I think you were mixing posts with somebody elses out there. I don’t think I ever commented on your training, as I mentioned I don’t know you. What I hear about you on the grapevine is pretty good, so I look forward to meeting you someday, but please clarify whjo you are knocking down, I hate to be held to anothers words. ---
**Author:** ![blacktaoist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@blacktaoist](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/blacktaoist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/63 "2002-09-16T18:07:06Z")
paperweight, There is no need for me to Call, I’m just going to show up, thars all to it. Im going to challenge their skills. If Park guys are so good as you claim then they should not have a problem taking me up on my Challenge. You people should have a very easy time beating me. Like I said, I see this week just how good this Park method is in Freefighting. When I say friendly I’m going with only 4 of my students, that is what I call frendly. I have many other students that want to test the waters for me. But I want to test the waters myself of this High level Ba Gua Zhang method, that many people are flying from all parts of the world to learn, so you claim. These Park certified instructors must be high level Right. After all Park certifiend them to teach his method, and from what you are posting, its a great fighting style. So I will just have to see how true these claims you are making are. Monkeyslap sorry for the mix up. ---
**Author:** ![Water\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Water\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Water_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/64 "2002-09-16T18:26:13Z")
Let us know what happens. ---
**Author:** ![paperweight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@paperweight](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/paperweight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/65 "2002-09-16T18:36:49Z")
Let me know what happens a man’s got to do what he has to. Good luck I hope you find what you are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Willow\_Sword](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/the_willow_sword/32/108_2.png) [@The\_Willow\_Sword](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/The_Willow_Sword)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/66 "2002-09-16T19:11:06Z")
Man I gotta Say something here Why the Fuk should Anyone care about who else does what? If you dont agree with the methods and teaching of another school,then YOU DONT HAVE TO WASTE YOUR TIME AND TRAINING ENERGY \*\*\*\*\*ing about it. Just do what you do BT and All you park students,Do what it is that YOU do. Jesus H mutherfukkin christ on a rubber crutch,if this were the old days where challenges and insults were taken SERIOUSLY,someone would be DEAD by now. Its madness i tell you. Look man, all i am saying is that The teaching and training is different with every teacher and every master of a system. BT, your system and lineage focuses more on the reality combat, Parks stuff focuses on the health and qigong and the self defense. I have never known parks system to be that of a Balls to bones fighting system,some people dont want to take martial arts to fight,they just want to improve themselves through that path but no necesarily go to the ring or the tournament. So if Parks students are talking sh!t,Fuk em man. who gives a rats A$$? Let them step into your circle BT. Keep your door open to educate rather than to issue challenges of your own. So if you feel the NEED to go and test yourself against Park then go and do it. do it on your own time and money and reap what you sow. Maybe Park will accept your challenge,maybe he will tell you to go fuk yourself,at least you can say that YOU went down there own your own and made the attempt. If parks students come to your kwoon and challenge you,then there you have the reverse of the situation. If it were My kwoon i would tell them to go fuk themselves and call the police and have them arrested for harrassment. it doesnt mean that i am a coward or that the school is crap,just means that my kwoon has better things to do than to accomodate dumb muther fukkers that dont know \*\*\*\* about Mo Duk. Many Respects BT,The Willow Sword ---
**Author:** ![regulator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@regulator](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/regulator)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/67 "2002-09-16T19:45:57Z")
TWS and what the fuk exactly do you know about mo duk anyways? if you had a clue you wouldn’t have posted what you just said. guess what TWS, if someone walks into your school and challenges you, and you DON’T stand up and then on top of it you run off and call the cops… YOU HAVE NO MO DUK, period. use your head genius, and don’t dismiss what i say just because you don’t know who i am the way you dismiss what Nick Lo says for the same reasons. who i am has NOTHING to do with the validity of my statements. i could be very high level … or i could be a pimply 14 year old kid who gets his jollies off from watching you post useless drivel and get bent out of shape when you get called on it… who knows? people like me post because people like you pollute the forums with your crap. if you would stick to what you KNOW instead of what you WISH you knew, or WANT to know, perhaps you wouldn’t get targeted by folks like me (or Nick Lo, for that matter). while i may not agree with BT’s methods all the time, i do agree with one of his main points, and that is to keep the tao REAL like he says… the man wants to have the REAL DEAL and i can completely respect that. so before you rant and rave about your reverse egocentric psychobabble pseudo lovey dovey newagey bunny rabbits and flowers philosophical BULL$HIT , just remember… as Nick Lo once stated… you spent a vast amt of time in your role as a “form dancing meal ticket for a man with a mullet”… and you don’t know jack about mo duk. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Willow\_Sword](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/the_willow_sword/32/108_2.png) [@The\_Willow\_Sword](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/The_Willow_Sword)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/68 "2002-09-16T20:02:12Z")
:o (ir)regulator an Nick low(life) can both go and bump D!ckheads or push thier Sh!t in for all i care.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![razakdigital](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/razakdigital/32/76_2.png) [@razakdigital](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/razakdigital)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/69 "2002-09-16T20:02:54Z")
BT yo I"m down for whatever!!! \*\*\*\*, I got your instructions off my voicemail today and I will holla back at you… BT, I’m down for whatever, if you want to roll I’m in there like swimwear…I’m ready to put on the sh\*tkickers and to handle this with the quickfast…it’s time for some thug pakua… I’m telling you BT i know who paperweight and klye is and I will point them out… you watch … ---
**Author:** ![paperweight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@paperweight](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/paperweight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/70 "2002-09-16T20:09:00Z")
violence How sad it has come to this again. violence only spawns violence. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeySlap\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@MonkeySlap\_Too](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MonkeySlap_Too)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/71 "2002-09-16T20:36:39Z")
Hmmm… I don’t advocate storming a school - that’s bad manners in today’s society. But what is wrong with offering a challenge? I think I understand TWS, he came from SD, and when he stepped out of that pool he discovered that karate material is not ‘combat’ kung fu. He also made a good point that some people just don’t train for fighting. What if Park’s guys just say ‘hey, we are teaching / practicing for health, not fighting.’ What then? ---
**Author:** ![count](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/count/32/67_2.png) [@count](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/count)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/72 "2002-09-16T20:45:48Z")
Re: violence > Originally posted by paperweight > [B] violence only spawns violence. [/B] I don’t know MonkeySlapToo, that sounds as close to an answer as anything I have heard in this thread and sounds like an acceptance to me. > if you want to roll I’m in there like swimwear > Razaz, do you copyright your stuff? I’d like to use that in my signature? ---
**Author:** ![Water\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Water\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Water_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/73 "2002-09-16T20:46:42Z")
Re: Hmmm… > Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too > [B] What if Park’s guys just say ‘hey, we are teaching / practicing for health, not fighting.’ What then? [/B] Well, as long as they don’t promote themselves as a fighting school, I don’t see a problem. Oh yeah, did some more work last night. It’s definately the spine that’s the pivot. Let’s see what comes out of that 😕 ---
**Author:** ![blacktaoist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@blacktaoist](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/blacktaoist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/74 "2002-09-16T20:54:53Z")
All I want to do is see how skillful theses certified instructors of Park are. The ones teaching in my area are Ion ionescu and that Guy Ray Ahles, who is the Ba Gua teacher of the Bergen Kung Academy in N.J. I’m look to see these great Ba Gua Zhang skills that paperweight is always posting about. He claims that Park people are all good fighers, So fortunately I’ve sometime this week to find out. I hear from some of my resource that Park train student Ion Ionescu can hit a person eight times in a secound, also this guy Ray is one of Park good fighters. Well he should be he is a certified instructor Of Park. I’m not looking for trouble, all I want is to test skills, thats all. And if their a Ba Gua Zhang fignting School as they claim their are, there should be no problem to accept a little freefighting match. If I get beat, I get beat I have no problem getting my ass kick if Park people are that good. But Like I said before I crosshands with a few of his people before, and they didn’t have nothing. Well I guess the real fighters are the certified instructors of Park. Well, that have to be, Because they are teaching Park method as a fighting art,Well I will soon see As far the challenge being "friendly thats up to Park people when I show. after all I’m coming to their house, I already welcome them to my house for free, and not one of them step up. But they claim to have all these experience fighters in his system from all parts of the world. Like I said, I soon find out. ---
**Author:** ![razakdigital](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/razakdigital/32/76_2.png) [@razakdigital](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/razakdigital)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/75 "2002-09-16T21:11:49Z")
rising to the occasion… The bottom line is that do claim to be fighters and thats all good…and if they want to use pa kua for health its great…I have no problem with that either because its not of my concern…my issue is when they act (when I mean they I mean the students that are on this board talking sh\*t…only them) they can fight and they hide behind a computer…even in Park’s book he discusses fighting methods and being on the offensive and defensive…now that they are being tested they want to conveniently step to the health aspect of it and like we are the violent ones… bottom line once we step to this board some ago all the foolishness of taking about combat and not fooling people was over because we question everything because we train for combat and we want to learn and step our game up…we train for health and other aspect as well but that is all in the pakua package… you guys forget that pa kua is a warrior art…Dong Hai was not a a model citizen - it was rumored he was a thief…what about 10 day Ma? … One more thing… I posted earlier that I would point out paperweight and kyle to BT…I’m don’t hide behind my trainer like these guys do for Park…that was meant as a statement to show who is who…I can deal with them myself… ---
**Author:** ![blacktaoist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@blacktaoist](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/blacktaoist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/76 "2002-09-16T21:14:58Z")
paperweight, > violence only spawns violence. This is not about Violence, this is about truth. And thats all I plan to find out. If you guys are good, then this week I will find out. Now if it was about violence, I would have been row down to your school with more then four people. Man you just don’t know who you are \*\*\*\*ing with. But you are about to find out. I told you before I do Ba Gua Zhang for real. This is not a game for me, but you are about to find out very soon. Razak you didn’t have to post, like I told the rest of the students I can handle my own fights. Thats why maoshon don’t post anything. Because he know what time it is with these Park guys. But this week we see whats up. ---
**Author:** ![looking\_up](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e99b99/32.png) [@looking\_up](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/looking_up)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/77 "2002-09-17T01:16:01Z")
Are you videotaping, BT? BT, Are you videotaping the event (visit to Park’s school) for posterity’s sake? Also, I would be interested in Maoshan’s tournament video when it is all said and done, but I don’t think I’ll be able to afford the usual $50+, do you know how much you’ll be charging? Peace - - LU ---
**Author:** ![blacktaoist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@blacktaoist](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/blacktaoist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/78 "2002-09-17T15:01:20Z")
looking\_up I don’t take these Park individuals for real, I said before I find these two guys comical and laughable for me to take serious. I already know who these individuals are that was trying to hide behind their P.C. I going have one of my students tape this match, if it gos down. I see what happen when I call and e-mail these So called experts of Parks Ba Gua Zhang teaching. As for the all Ba gua Zhang tape, you have to E-mail Maoshan for information about it. [niwah64@hotmail.com](mailto:niwah64@hotmail.com) Peace ---
**Author:** ![paperweight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@paperweight](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/paperweight)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/79 "2002-09-17T15:47:53Z")
and we return BT hates Park’s Pa Kua. BT issues challenge. BT get’s angry. BT curses. BT says he’s for real. BT says no one knows who they are dealing with. round and round the cirlce goes. BT we all know who you are and that you are for real. Who doubts this? You have to go inside and understand where this comes from. Your obsession with Park is unhealthy. Look at how much bad Pa kua is out there. Why do you focus on the good? ---
**Author:** ![looking\_up](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e99b99/32.png) [@looking\_up](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/looking_up)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857/80 "2002-09-17T15:57:05Z")
Thanks BT. I hope to see some interesting video. I have never seen bagua used properly for fighting. I’ll check in next week to see if your challenge was accepted in the name of Park’s bagua’s honor or whatever. I don’t have as much time to visit these boards, I’m trying to train with consistency. With work and class and a woman, well, you know how it can be. Peace - LU “The only skill I can truly understand and talk about is my own.” [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/in-parks-defense/14857.md?page=5)