Ideal Calorie intake

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
1

Hello everybody,

I have been excercising and dieting since June, and I’ve lost 80lb. I still would like to lose another 70 (I did weigh 330, I now weight 250), but I also want to build muscle. I know I want a low amount of carbs, and a high amount of protien, but I’m not sure how many calories I should be taking in every day.
I lift weights Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I also do about 1/2 hour of cardio on those days. Tuesday, Thursday, and the weekend I try to do at least 1 hour of cardio per day.

How many calories should I have on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday? How many on the other days?

Thanks,
Dennis

PS: Incase you need my height, I’m about 6’2"

2

I have been excercising and dieting since June, and I’ve lost 80lb.

Good job.

I still would like to lose another 70 (I did weigh 330, I now weight 250), but I also want to build muscle.

The general rule is (and there are genetic exceptions), you cannot build significant muscle AND lose significant bodyfat at the same time. Professional bodybuilders get pretty fat in the off season when they are adding muscle. Why? Because this is the fastest and most effecient way to add muscle. Then, when it comes time for a show, they diet the fat off while trying to preserve as much muscle as possible. But, some muscle is still lost, because the body is in a catabolic mode. Drugs and high protein help maintain muscle while dieting (hardcore bodybuilder style), but some loss is inevitable.

So for you, I would recommend losing as much fat as you want, and then once your bodyfat levels are at a good level, work on building muscle from there. Make sense?

Dude, if you’ve lost 60 pounds in 5 months you don’t need any help with your diet. Whatever you are doing is working.

If you have any more questions ask away.

Iron

3

Well, the problem is, I’ve lost the weight by eating way too little. Up until this past week or two I’ve only been consuming about 800 - 900 calories per day(Every day I would eat breakfast, which was usually just cereal, and dinner, which wasn’t much more than like a chicken breast or something), and I’ve heard that you need at least 1,000 or so to keep yourself healthy.

The past week has been a little crazy(tonight is the homecoming dance for school, and I’ve been busy doing stuff and getting prepared for that), so I haven’t exercised more than twice. But when I do start exercising again, what would you recomend I do?

Like I said in my first post, I want to lift weights Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Should I take in about 1500-2500 calories on those days, and for other(cardio) days I only take in 1000-1500?

If doing that is not feasable, I guess I will just wait to build muscle later, but I would prefer to try to do both at the same time.

Thanks again,
Dennis

4

I went through the same exact thing earlier this year. In a nutshell, I was consuming under 1000 calories a day, i dropped 35 pounds in a month, but i felt like crap.

I switched to a super-protein diet with a weightlifting workout (instead of my suicide aerobic workout) and I was able to more easily maintain a slightly higher weight, but felt more healthy.

This may sound like heresy these days; but appearance-wise, cut muscles will get you a lot more “ooohhhs”, “aaaahs”, and respect outside of the gym than your average bulky powerlifter look.

So what’s your goal?

If this is a getting girls kinda thing, then maybe just lose as much as you can; however you can; worry about strength and muscle later.

If this is an athletic performance thing, maybe take a more moderate, “healthy” approach with more conservative (but specific) goals.

For the first, try a super reduced calorie diet, maybe add some protein so your body don’t consume all of your own muscles, and keep your workouts mostly (if not all) aerobic. Maybe also try a fat burner like Xenadrine, or other ECA stack.

For the second, try a moderate diet, like the Zone, with a good amount of protein, and workout that’s a good mix of weights and aerobics. Be aware of overtraining, maybe use some fat-burning supplements, and keep your goals a lot more conservative- like the 1 pound a week thing.

The conservative way will have a lot less rebound (regained) weight, but it takes a lot of effort and patience, because it’s more of a lifestyle change and not a “get done quick” thing.

Good luck and congrats on your progress thus far. I’ve already negated all mine. LOL


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

5

I would like to gain muscle, but I guess I’d rather lose fat first.

I was reading some articles on www.efit.com and some of them said that 1lb of muscle burns up to 50 calories a day. And of course, lifting the weights burns calories as well. If I worked out(with weights) 3 days a week, consuming 2,000 calories on those days, and did cardio(running, elliptical trainer, jump rope, etc.) at least another 2 days a week(only consuming about 1,500 those days), would I lose any weight(I think I really mean to say, would I burn any fat? and if so, how much?)?

I would like to lose at least another 40-50 pounds by February, would it be better for me to only take in about 1,200 calories a day and do a bunch of cardio, or take in more calories, and do cardio + weight lifting?

Thank you all, once again,
Dennis

6

February is what, 3, 3.5 months away?
That’s 10 to 20 pounds a month, if you’re shooting for 40 or 50 more pounds.

The only way you’re going to drop the 40 to 50 that quick is by staying strict on your diet (calories) and not worrying about muscle growth. You can make sure you don’t look scrawny when u drop that far, by maintaining the muscle you have.

Honestly; 40 to 50 is such a marked difference, that the muscle you have would look very large on someone weighing that much less than you. MY advice, is to keep the calories in that 1200 to 2000 range, preferrably 1500 or less. BUT, make sure you’re taking in large amounts of protein.

Like I said before, protein kind of prevents your body from digesting it’s own muscle- the weights you’re lifting will do a bit to make sure you still have some tone at the lower weight as well.

Trust me, I’ve seen my lil bro’s frat brothers drop weight in a similar way. One guy in particular lost like 60 pounds in 3 months (over a summer) just by jogging a few hours a day, and keeping his protein high. When he was finished he just looked buff. Not sure if any steroids were involved, but he specifically said he quit lifting during that period; just kept his calories low, his aerobics and protein high.

I’m not saying do exactly what he did. Lifting weights is thermogenic in that it burns calories after the workout is finished, unlike aerobics (for the most part), and thus burns more calories. However you should still do a lot of aerobics throughout the week. Also, you need to be aware of overtraining, like I mentioned before. It can lead to more breakdown of muscle and an overall depressed, tired, sore, un-energetic feeling.

A fat burner will help too; but that can kick you into overtraining without you realizing it. The “up” feeling they give you might mask how tired/sore your body is. I still recommend it, just be aware.

Good luck. :slight_smile:
I’m gonna be doing the same thing once I’m outta here. :slight_smile:


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

7

I forgot to mention that I do try to take in a large amount of protien. I try to have at least 1 protien bar a day(I don’t always have the same ones, but it’s usually between 20 and 30g protien per bar), and I usually eat a can of tuna, or a few ounces of beef jerky to raise the amount of protien I get.

I don’t think I over train(if you think I am, please tell me), here is what I am doing now in the gym.

Biceps(curls) - 4 sets
8 reps 5lb
6 reps 15lb
4 reps 20lb
2 reps 30lb

Shoulders(machine press) - 4 sets
8 reps 40lb
6 reps 60lb
4 reps 80lb
2 reps 120lb

Chest(machine press) - 4 sets
8 reps 40lb
6 reps 60lb
4 reps 80lb
2 reps 120lb

Legs (Squat machine) - 4 sets
8 reps 60lb
6 reps 80lb
4 reps 120lb
2 reps 160lb

Abs (Crunches) - 5 sets
20 reps each set, unweighted

Triceps (I haven’t decided which machine to use yet) - 4 sets
8 reps 40lb
6 reps 60lb
4 reps 80lb
2 reps 100lb
I’m not sure if this is too much work for my triceps, next time I go to the gym, I’ll try it out.

5 minutes of elliptical trainer

About 20 minutes of treadmill (I set the speed between 2.5 and 3.5mph and the incline goes from about 6% down to 0% gradually)

I don’t do all this in one day(I did today because I was bored and had not been to the gym since about monday), I’m going to spread this out to three days a week(mon, wed, fri), except for the treadmill and elliptical trainer, I’m going to do that every day(I think my abs can handle everyday too, though I’m not completely sure).

I’m also going to try to jump rope 15-30 minutes a day.

If there’s anything wrong with this, please tell, I’m always up for learning something new :slight_smile:

Thanks yet again,
Dennis

PS: For the past several months I have been taking ritalin to supress my appetite. Not sure if I should exercise more or less because of that.

8

CRON diet

The CRON diet is a life long decision. You can look into it at httP://www.walford.com

CRON stands for Calorie Reduced Optium Nutition

Must people only concern themselves with caloric intake and they forget that their bodies need vitamins and minerals also. The CRON diet is a way of calculating how to get the needed amount of good stuff while reducing the calories. Lab studies on mice have had a profound effect.

9

Well I’m on ritalin too; but I’m supposed to be taking it. It’s not a drug u should mess around with if you’re not supposed to be on it. Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Lately it’s been really hard for me to get my medication- which I need to function normally; just because some stupid college kids get it into their head to abuse it. If the same thing happened to diabetics with insulin, I bet they’d be ticked too. If you’re supposed to be taking it, cool. Just make sure you drink a lot of water. It takes the place of a fat burner; taking both at the same time is baaaad. Otherwise, products like Xenadrine, Hydroxycut, MD6, and maybe even Ripped Fuel are much more effective and much safer.

I can’t really tell you what’s what with your workout, because it’s not consistant with my goals. Some things I’d like to point out-

  1. you’re working triceps & shoulders 3 times a week
  2. you’re not even working the lats
  3. the leg press machine is not really that good of a leg workout- definitely not as all-encompassing a workout as squats.
  4. It just doesn’t seem complete, way too much emphasis on shoulders and triceps; with minimal emphasis on legs, and zero emphasis on lats & lower back.
  5. You can avoid overtraining by not doing too many sets in one workout. 20 would be too many, 12 to 16 would be good.

On aerobics- I tend to agree with the belief that any aerobics done for less than 30 to 45 minutes at a time (in a single interval) is not really aerobic and not really useful. Combining those different aerobic exercises into something like a circuit, with no rest, might be a better idea.

As far as nutrition goes, I was under the assumption that you were over 230 pounds. In which case, I’d recommend 100~115g of protein BARE MINIMUM. Sorry, but 20~30 from a protein bar and another 30~40 from tuna or a meat patty just puts a dent in that, you need more. IronFist gave me a good recommendation, and that’s “get rid of the protein bars, they’re a rip-off”. Shakes, tuna, and other protein sources are much more economical.


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

10

I would not be taking ritalin, but my doctor perscribed it, and said it helps supress apetite as well. You said I was working triceps and shoulders three times a week, I’m not doing all that three times a week, I’m going to do some on monday(Ex: chest, triceps), some on tuesday(ex: shoulders, biceps), and some on friday(ex: legs).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>
4. It just doesn’t seem complete, way too much emphasis on shoulders and triceps; with minimal emphasis on legs, and zero emphasis on lats & lower back.
[/quote]

I was in a bit of a hurry when I typed my post, I also use a lat pulldown machine, and one of those machines that you use like a reverse situp(for your back). What else should I do for my legs? leg extensions?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>
“get rid of the protein bars, they’re a rip-off”. Shakes, tuna, and other protein sources are much more economical.
[/quote]

The only reason I have protien bars is because my dad bought a bunch of them(they were on sale, and he asked if I wanted any, and I said sure), when I get rid of all of them, I’m going to switch back to protien shakes.

-Dennis

11

You are 250lbs and only consuming 1,000 calories? That is extremely low. Sorry I’m at work and only glanced through some of the other posts here, so if what I say just repeats what others said then I apoligize.

You shouldn’t try to drop weight too fast…sure if when you were 330 it’s gonna go fast…but when you get towards your ideal body weight it will slow down quite a bit. I would recommend at least taking in 2,000 calories, which is still calorie deficient for a 200lb male to maintain bodyweight. I’d even suggest going around 2500-3000 cals and you will still be losing weight…but then most of the weight will be fat instead of muscle. Losing too much weight will be hard on your body…your skin will also appear lose and flappy, or so I hear from others who have done this. You are working out so it’s probably a good idea to take in a good multivitamin, since you have also dropped your intake of food. This means less food which means less vitamins along with training which means your body requires more vitamins.

My final recommendation would be to go to 2500 calories per day with a good time-released multivatimin…keep your protein intake relatively high and cut out sugar wherever you can.

12

Well, we’re cool on the ritalin thing then, cuz i’m the same way. :slight_smile:

As far as shoulders and triceps 3 times a week- working shoulders works tris and shoulders; so does bench/chest presses; and so does tricep extensions. So in that sense you’ve got 3 exercises in the workout getting the same 2 bodyparts, which is not bad- but it’s more focus than you give everything else.

For lats, again, depending on your goals, lat pulldown might be fine; but pull ups and assisted pull ups are much better.

Extensions and hamstring curls are good leg exercises, as are lunges; might not want to neglect calves either.

ElPietro has a point with the nutrition. Unfortunately us big guys have a hard time digesting quickly, we eat a couple big meals throughout the day and our body works on it. In order to bump your metabolism up to the point where you could digest 2500 hundred calories a day, you’d need like 5 meals. If you can juggle 5, 500 calorie meals, then I say go for it. Even if you wanna stay at 1200 to 2000 calories a day, spreading that out to 5 or 6 meals is a great idea.

Personally, for me, 5 500 calorie meals is a bit hard to plan & I think I would get full quick knowing my metabolism. It’s sound science though, so I’m gonna have to think about it for myself and i recommend considering it for you.


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

13

So, would you recomend that I don’t do any exercise to specifically target the triceps? Do bench/shoulder presses work the triceps enough to eliminate the need for a specific tricep exercise?

How would you work calves? Is that the opposite of how you do leg extensions?

14

Hey I just glanced at your routine…sorry gotta run in a sec. Triceps should be trained…they are a pretty large muscle group…as opposed to biceps which are much smaller. If you are going to train 3 days a week just do it logically. Train triceps with chest and biceps (if you do direct biceps work) with back. If you go 3 days a week I might suggest what I currently do which is a push/pull/legs routine. So chest/shoulders/triceps then back/biceps/traps, then legs. It gives your body plenty of recovery time which is the most important thing when training. Good luck.

15

I don’t think you understand what i’m saying.
You’ve got like 1 exercise for legs as a whole; but you’ve got 3 exercises for triceps and shoulders alone. I’m just saying you might want some more balance. If that workout works for you, great. But there are more muscles in the legs, which means they burn more calories and can look really funny if you don’t focus on them as much as everything else. It’s your workout, I’m not a personal trainer, and I don’t know that much about you and your physique, especially in relation to your goals. I can’t really design a perfect program for you. I can just tell you what I see. If you want more detailed workout info, you might want to buy a book or go online and do some research OR maybe get a personal trainer.

You can do toe raises for calves. You can to them on smith machines, leg press machines, seated calf raises, holding dumbells, or a barbell on your back. Lots of ways to do basically the same thing.


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

16

What other leg exercises do you recomend me do? I don’t like doing squats with freeweights because I’m afraid of injuring my back(I’m not sure of the proper form), so I use the machine.

Thanks,
Dennis

17

I already answered this, but:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Extensions and hamstring curls are good leg exercises, as are lunges; might not want to neglect calves either.[/quote]

You might understand leg extensions better using the term “quad kick outs”, it’s one i made up, but it’s descriptive of what you’re doing..

For some good lifting info:
www.anabolicextreme.com
www.t-mag.com

As far as form with lifting freeweights goes, those websites have good info on proper form, just use the search engine. You also might want to buy “Getting Stronger” by Bill Pearl or “The Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding” by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I repeat again: for your workout, all I’m saying is that it might be a good idea to get a balanced, total body workout. If you’re unfamiliar with freeweights, stick with machines, but I wouldn’t expect big gains muscle wise. Are the machines in your gym set up in some kind of circuit? If so, then just make sure you do the whole circuit to get a full-body workout. You don’t have to do the circuit in “circuit room style”, meaning you don’t have to rush through the circuit with only one set on each machine. You can still do the same number of sets and reps, just make sure you use every machine; so u focus enough on each bodypart.


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

18

Why wouldn’t you expect big gains from “lifting” with machines?

I can start doing freeweights again, but I prefer machines(They’re safer than freeweights if you happen to not have somebody to spot you). Today I went to the gym and did these leg exercises:

leg extensions, curls(like bicep curls), squat machine(did a few sets with a little weight, and did one set with like 240lb), then I did a couple 180lb squats with freeweights.

Is that enough leg exercises?

Thanks,
Dennis

19

Machines vs Freeweights has been done to death around these parts. For the skinny on this topic, check the following thread:
http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=1371978891

Use dumbells if you’re worried about a spot.
“Enough” is entirely subjective. You should be concentrating on “balance”; which I’ve mentioned 5 times now in this thread.

Check the last page of the “Strength Advice From an Ex Powerlifter” thread. I included links to threads, links to sites that you can carry out research, and topics you should look up.


Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

20

Ok, I’ll start using freeweights, and I’ll check out that thread. Thanks!

Dennis