Ive read a few posts saying that YKM has some HG influence.
I was hoping maybe someone could tell me a little about how the two arts where intergrated and what aspects of HG are in YKM.
Are there any full Hung Ga forms?
Also if anyone knows any of the history of YKM [looking towards FT here;) ], could they tell me A] which YKM master intergrated it?B]who they learnt the HG from?
These are in no way trick questions im just generaly interested in how these two arts got put together. I know very little of YKM other than it uses a fair amount of Bak Mei forms.
Any responces would be welcome?
jon
We have no original Hung Ga forms in Yau Kung Mun. We have a form called Ying Ching Kuen; which has dynamic tension, swinging arms, and it’s very hung gar-ish. Our late Grandmaster Har Hon Hung learned Hung Ga and Choy Li Fut from his uncle in Guangzhou when he was young and was supposed to be pretty good at these arts as well. He was defeated by Cheung Lai Chun in Guangzhou and became a student after that. All of Cheung Lai Chun’s students from this area were kung fu people that he defeated. I also heard that CLC closed down around 15 Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut schools in Canton in one day. I kind of like the Hung Ga influence in Yau Kung Mun to build strength, stances, etc. It is very similar to the iron wire form of Hung Ga. That is all that I can give you for now. Talk more later.
Thanks F.T
Thanks heaps for the information mate:)
lol still this quote i find a little odd…
“I also heard that CLC closed down around 15 Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut schools in Canton in one day”
For a start thats a LOT of schools to visit in one day, was he in a REALLY bad mood?
Also Lam Sai Wings School was in Canton if im not mistaken, and im pretty sure CLC didnt show up there on his little rampage hmm wonder why. Not sure on exact times he was teaching in that area though. Still many good Hung Ga schools in that area and most are still around.
Not stating this to argue, simply i never like when people try and hint towards one art being better than another.
Again though thanks for the info of how the arts are related.
jon
hi mate,
my comment wasnt to try and start trouble im just passing on info, i love hung gar i think its a great system. clc must have been in a hurry and to be around canton so fast he must have the fastest legs in town. talk about mo ying gerk! 
anyways thats all i have to tell you, probably only half is true!
Not good at all
Hi there,
I’m not here to start trouble either. Just to let you know that I don’t think YKM is very good.
Ego
When have you ever seen YKM? And who did you see demoing?
I ask cause not to many people have seen the real YKM system.
Anyway, like they say to each his own. :rolleyes:
Buby
Ego
Thats cool, each to there own! as long as im happy doing what im doing and i find its effective then i dont care what people have to say.
all the best:)
YKM
Buby
There are a number of schools in the vicinity. Like other southern styles, theres alot of emphaisis on the shape of the hand, translating the terms into chinese which is meaningless given that all of us in the States speak english. Plus the foot work is very sluggish.
Your right fierce tiger. YKM is suitable for students with certain atheltic dispositions.
Ego
“Buby
There are a number of schools in the vicinity. Like other southern styles, theres alot of emphaisis on the shape of the hand, translating the terms into chinese which is meaningless given that all of us in the States speak english. Plus the foot work is very sluggish.”
I can’t speak for the YKM schools in your vicinity, if there’s even one located in Jeresy. All I know is that my sifu (Fiercest Tiger) knows his sh*t and does a hell of job passing on his knowledge.
We don’t place lots of emphaisis on the shape of the hand. Actually we place more emphaisis on stance work, luk ging (proper body mechanics), conditioning, and lots of pad work/fighting drills. What type of fist we use depends on where we’re aiming for and type of damage we’re trying to inflict.
Translating the terms into chinese might be a waste to you, but it’s actually taken my studies a step further. I take it you don’t understand what I’m taking about, cause you consider it a waste.
Our footwork sluggish? I doubt you have seen YKM in action. Hey maybe you saw a beginner or someone that doesn’t train properly. For all I know maybe that practioner just plain s*cks. YKM isn’t the fixer upper for everyone. Have you ever heard of ba bo gung si? Have you ever seen a YKMer rip through fubo? It’s really explosive!
Can you tell me where in Jerezy is the YKM school/s located? I would love to go have a look at what you saw. From what I know of, the only ykm schools in the states are located in Cali. and not in Jerz…But who knows!
Buby
Bubsta
mad love
PM vs HG ???
Fiercest Tiger.
“I also heard that Cheung Lai Chun closed down around 15 Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut schools in Canton in one day”.
This is strange because Cheung Lai Chun and Lam Sai Wing of HG were contemporaries. They worked together in the Southern Kuo Shu Institute in Guangzhou (Canton).
Although PM is a style with very good principles and tactics I do wonder if such claims are supported by real evidence.
jon
You study Hung Gar under Joseph don’t you?
I studied under him for a short period at a school in Parramatta.
Does he still teach there?
lungyuil
Hey how are you:)
Yes i certainly study with Joseph and have for five years now.
If you were there in that time there is a chance i may know you. I only went to private lessons for a long time but im back doing both now.
I take it by your profile your studying YKM now? How is that going and are you studying with F.T?
Anyway hope you enjoyed your time with Joseph my body is going numb just thinking about my next class and thats in another 3 days, darn stances;)
ling
you would know better, i was told this by a bak mei sifu not ykm!
probably right! too me i think its all bull and i really dont care i was just talking about what i was told.
Jon
Joseph is really into his conditioning. I remember training 3 star forearm conditioning, stances in a circle and hitting the phone books.
At the time i was training there were about 5 students constantly including his kids (a son & daughter). How many forms does he teach as part of his syllubus these days? Back then it was 4 forms incl. 1 pole.
What nights do you train and where?
Yeah, i train under FT. Its going great, finally found the art for me, so to speak, we train hard. alot of conditioning, drilling of the forms, breakdowns etc. Training is a killer as always.
lungyuil
Yep that sounds like Joseph alright. The style of Hung Ga is really big on conditioning and he likes to train the way he was taught.
His classes are and always have been very small, he prefers to teach how he likes,rather than to change the class to suit new students so to speak. Hence not many stick around for that long.
Jospeph actualy teachs all the Hung Ga piller forms plus several weapon sets but getting that info out of him can be tricky.
He has several made up short sets he likes to teach newbies but in Hung Ga proper he teachs these sets.
Lau Gar fist, Cross Tiger Fist, Tiger Crane, Five animals Five elements. Iron Wire.
For weapons
Short stick, Lau Gar staff, butterfly twin short swords, 8 diagram staff.
He used to never teach forms in class though, it was more a private lesson thing, i remember the most you used to see was the occasional senior going though Lau Gar.
The classes these days are Monday and Wensday at the school from 6.30 to 8.30+ and Saturday mournings from 6am.
Im glad to hear YKM is working for you though, its important to find a style that suits both your body and personality.
I never thought of myself as a Hung Ga man but over the years its slowly cemented itself into my personality.
Still F.T sounds like a great sifu i wish you all the best on your journey
Ego
Ego makes a good point about Southern Styles, one that deserves at least an exploration. Speaking in broad based generalities only for the sake of this diatribe…
Southern styles aren’t as accessable as many other styles of martial arts, especially the karate and TKD styles and other heavily sport oriented or organised arts. This isn’t really anything new.
The stances are diffucult to come to grips with in the early stages, I couldn’t agree more. It takes years to learn them, much less to learn to make them work for you. Sluggish is a poor execution, stable and energetically economic is however not to be confused with sluggish. The bouncing about of a boxer and kick boxer has its place, just that it is different, like a wrestler’s shuffling…
All you have to do is watch how many southern stylists drop into kick-boxing when they put on the gloves. And, many, many do, as anybody who has ever attended a tournament will testify. Granted, the gloves dictate the style of combat to a certain extent too.
Understanding a southern style is a matter for most westerners to learning a different perspective of combat, as well as the techniques. Very few, if any, southern styles believe in trading blows for a time, gradually wearing down the opponent for a finishing off power technique. Sparring in lots of southern styles risks being counter productive.
A pre-occupation with hand and fist shapes is probably a fair observation from outside as well, as these are “next level” lessons that a novice in southern style wouldn’t really understand, or be able to apply properly, but must come to terms with. A gloved fist is much easier to use from the beginning, and much more in keeping with western psyche.
What I’m getting to, is my own humble observation that southern styles take much more time to come to grips with because you have to change attitude, as well as learning new, un-natural techniques.
Which amongst the YKM and PM players ever felt totally natural with that stance to begin with? Or the inward pointing elbows? You body has to learn the new postures and accept them as natural first. One year, perhaps two? If you do your lessons… (or perhaps 15 years?? <grin>)
Now, the chinese language thing. Well, thats a trickey one, and I’m coming to terms with it now. As a round-eye that doesn’t speak cantonese that learns from a Cantonese Sifu that doesn’t speak much English, language was never a part of my 15 years of training. Watch and do, over and over, and over. I got tidbits and learned some names of the combinations, but not the translations. Now, I’m getting a bit more of the language stuff from a few friends, and pestering Sifu, and it’s interesting, but also a distraction. On the whole, it does improve my appreciation of the art though, if not my execution.
I guess my message is, concentrate on the workouts, take language as an extra - tempting that it may be - and you’ll learn well. Southern styles (generally speaking) are special because they take time and devotion to learn, the lessons are not obvious, not quick and easy to use in reality.
That’s why southern stylists are different personalities than other stylists (if you’re not culturally dictated to learn a style that is). I know lots of people who don’t like to fight that choose southern styles for their physical and cultural richness. Likewise, some of the most deadly people I’ve ever met do southern styles for their effectiveness in real life.
Then of course, finding a good Sifu, and not a outright fraud, simple pretender or “Bruce Lee” wanker is another challenge…
Soutehrn Styles
Yum Cha,
That’s an interesting perspective. It is true that the rules of combat to a large extent influence the weapons of combat. Boxes bounce because they don’t expect their legs to be taken out. Wrestlers leave their groin exposed and head unguarded because no hits, not kicks to the groin. Muey tai employs large round house kicks that leaves the groin pretty much exposed- again no kicks allowed to the groin. Just some examples.
Going from a rule based to a no-rules situation (I’m not refering to NHB as there are rules - and taking down one opponent to the ground assumes that your facing only one opponent at a time in controlled surrounding of a ring) one could look towards Northern Kung Fu which was developed by the military for combat and elite body guard services.
If one could find a competent si fu, one would not only understand how to deal with real life situations but also understand why boxers box the way boxers do as well as other combat related sports.
As a result it also shows the combat difficiencies of Southern Kung Fu which I’ll just say there are many for the time being which Northern Systems also address.
I disagee that cultural richness should be a factor in choosing a kung fu style as it would cloud the primary objective of choosing an effective combat system.
I do appreciate your prespective and its refreshing to read about a different idea without the smut and sexual inuendo that many posts have become.
ego
Can you tell me where the YKM school is located in Jerz.?
Buby
Ego
I dont usualy bother resorting to insulting people BUT…
You are a total moron and are spreading total BS like its gospell.
Would you mind PLEASE stating ANY valid points as to how a southern system could be inferiour to a northern? Can you also tell us where on earth you have seen southern kung fu?
What style do you study, that you deem to be so much stronger?
Anyone who insults a whole region of china which is famous for its strength in martial arts had really want to back up such statements with serious facts and good skills.
From your posts so far im guessing you have no real training other than what you have read in books. Im also guessing you have never seen a southern martial art let alone tested there hands in person.
Please if your ever in Australia look me up ill be happy to give you a taste first hand. Im not that skilled but i have enough to stand up for what i belive in.
Once again please state ANY POINTS… So far you have made nothing but sweeping statements.
Again please answer my questions or else im just going to assume you have nothing.