How would you handle this situation

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Fellow instructor constantly call females, “honey” “sweetheart”. I know it is not meant in a derogatory way, however, it is not very professional

I talked to him about this a months back, he just discounted it and said if they don’t like, they can come to me directly. Or something of that nature. I forgot exactly what he said.

I was also attending one of his classes which he ran late. When I informed him I need to teach a private lesson and asked to be excused. He flat out said, “so, they can wait” These were pre-teens and need to be home for homework. I ended up apologizing profusely to their mom for running them late. :mad:

Yesterday when I was talking to a few students regarding some kung fu history, he asks’ me where I got my information from. I said from my previous sifu’s. He said, “so you got it from hearsay” It took all the control I had to not deck him right then and there. I couldn’t believe someone could disrespect my previous sifu’s like that to my face. If not for respect of my current sifu, I really would’ve decked him.

And on a personal opinion/observation; I believe he is somewhat uncomfortable that even though he out ranks me in this system, I have more experience than him overall in the CMA arena. He also likes correcting my private lesson students when they attend his group classes (again this may only be a biased observation on my part).

I would really like going up to my sifu about this and just handle it myself.

Thought about bringing this up to Sifu, but do not feel like being a cry baby.

2

[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]Fellow instructor constantly call females, “honey” “sweetheart”. I know it is not meant in a derogatory way, however, it is not very professional[/QUOTE]
it’s not; it’s actually very condescending, and I would never do it to another adult; in fact, I have this one little 6 y/o first grader I do PT with at one school I work at; for the first month or so, I kept calling her “sweetie” (well, she IS a sweetie, so sue me, LOL) until one day she looks at me dead in the face, and sternly says “don’t call me sweetie!”; I apologized, I never did again, and in fact stopped doing it with all my kids…

[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]I talked to him about this a months back, he just discounted it and said if they don’t like, they can come to me directly. Or something of that nature. I forgot exactly what he said.[/QUOTE]
if he doesn’t realize it on his own, you saying so won’t change his perception…also, it’s really not your place to do so - that’s between him and your sifu, and only if someone complains about it;

[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]I was also attending one of his classes which he ran late. When I informed him I need to teach a private lesson and asked to be excused. He flat out said, “so, they can wait” These were pre-teens and need to be home for homework. I ended up apologizing profusely to their mom for running them late. :mad:[/QUOTE]
that was BS on his part - total lack of consideration for the students you were supposed to teach and to you as well;

[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]Yesterday when I was talking to a few students regarding some kung fu history, he asks’ me where I got my information from. I said from my previous sifu’s. He said, “so you got it from hearsay” It took all the control I had to not deck him right then and there. I couldn’t believe someone could disrespect my previous sifu’s like that to my face. If not for respect of my current sifu, I really would’ve decked him. [/QUOTE]
dude, relax - he’s not dissing your ex-sifu - and so what if he did? that guy is nothing to him; what he saw was someone coming into his school and dropping info that may not jive w/their version of things;

[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]And on a personal opinion/observation; I believe he is somewhat uncomfortable that even though he out ranks me in this system, I have more experience than him overall in the CMA arena. He also likes correcting my private lesson students when they attend his group classes (again this may only be a biased observation on my part).[/QUOTE]
it sounds like to some degree it’s a territorial thing; but as you correctly point out, you are the newb here; might want to think about giving the guy a little deference, from a strategic standpoint, of course;

[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]
Thought about bringing this up to Sifu, but do not feel like being a cry baby.[/QUOTE]
look, he’s obviously insecure on some level: but remember, he’s been in this school working hard to establish his position, and you come in w/a different background and I’m guessing that he has nothing to say to you, in the sense that he can’t find anything to correct you personally on; so he does his passive aggressive powerplay thing with you to mark his turf

what I suggest:

  1. keep a low profile on and off the mat: no more extemporaneous “unofficial” history lessons to other students; you are the new kid on the block - don’t shine your light too brightly…

  2. keep it all under your hat for now w/the exception of this: explain to your sifu the situation w/the class you were in running late but don’t do a blame game on the other guy: just state that you asked to be excused and that he required you to stay until the end, no need to quote his exact words; then, ask your sifu what to do if that happens again: like that, your sifu will be aware of the situation, and will tell you what to do; probably, he will tell you that you have permission to excuse yourself - so when it does happen again, you can tell the other guy “excuse me, I have to teach a private, and sifu said I should just excuse myself if your class runs late”; this depersonalizes the situation - your sifu is there as the authority figure - use that to your advantage

  3. if he corrects your private students publicly, that’s fine - just let it go; if the student comes back to you and complains that they don’t know which way is correct, then you can - you guessed it - ask your sifu; just make sure that you remain very emotionally neutral whenever you do anything like that - it’s about the technique, not about you and the other guy, right?

  4. remember, if things do become publicly acrimonious, in all likelihood you will be the one shown the door…you may be better than this guy - the question is, are you projecting that you know this?

3

Couple of things, first his treatment of you is unprofessional and unfriendly but it also sounds as if he’s that way across the board. You’ll have to decide on your level of tolerance for that behavior towards you on a personal level.

Second, though, his treatment of students and parents of students is disrespectful and unless your sifu condones and accepts that attitude then he’s probably hurting the school. Certainly he’d be hurting the school’s reputation, and be default your sifus, if he has no qualms about making people wait and calling them terms that in this day and age many folks don’t like. That probably drives people away.

If it was bad enough, and it sounds like it may be, and you have a decent relationship with your sifu then I think you have a duty to bring his behavior to the attention of your sifu. Not to solve your personal problem with the guy but to address his behavior as it impacts the school.

My 2 cents

4

People like that are a cancer, and need to be cut out! Ah yes, the strawberries! That’s where I had them…

5

Guy’s just being a little bitch because he is threatened by you.

Plain and simple.

Blow him off, check yourself and I would say that tgy’s advice is pretty good.

6

back in college we used to all call Taai Gihk Yaan “sweetie” but I digress…

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[QUOTE=xcakid;929154]Fellow instructor constantly call females, “honey” “sweetheart”. I know it is not meant in a derogatory way, however, it is not very professional

I talked to him about this a months back, he just discounted it and said if they don’t like, they can come to me directly. Or something of that nature. I forgot exactly what he said.[/quote]

Lots of women talk this way, too. It’s more a person-by-person kind of thing.

I was also attending one of his classes which he ran late. When I informed him I need to teach a private lesson and asked to be excused. He flat out said, “so, they can wait” These were pre-teens and need to be home for homework. I ended up apologizing profusely to their mom for running them late. :mad:

You should have left, if he said ‘no, you couldn’t go’. If that meant you weren’t gonna be in his class anymore, fu@k him. If he does it again, assuming you go into one his classes again, tell him he can go to hell.

Yesterday when I was talking to a few students regarding some kung fu history, he asks’ me where I got my information from. I said from my previous sifu’s. He said, “so you got it from hearsay” It took all the control I had to not deck him right then and there. I couldn’t believe someone could disrespect my previous sifu’s like that to my face. If not for respect of my current sifu, I really would’ve decked him.

I cam across one of those, militant cult leader types. He was an ex-drill instructor and acted like the only thing that could ever work is only the stuff the military teaches, but when it came to the history of martial arts, he didn’t know anything. I watched his class and it was a joke. He even gave me his business card, if I wanted to take classes.

I would really like going up to my sifu about this and just handle it myself.

Thought about bringing this up to Sifu, but do not feel like being a cry baby.

If you feel that strongly, do it.

8

[QUOTE=TenTigers;929170]People like that are a cancer, and need to be cut out! [/QUOTE]

This is the TenTigers traditional greeting, like wassup, or “have you eaten” in Chinese.:smiley: I picture him in class going full Nietzsche on the students, bushy mustache and all.

As to the situation, frankly, I would have honored the obligation made for the private lesson, if he has a problem with that, he can discuss it with the teacher: after all, it sounds like both classes were obligations of your teachers that he entrusted to you, if this guy habitually does this, he’ll dig his own hole or mellow in the long run.

9

[QUOTE=KC Elbows;929203]This is the TenTigers traditional greeting, like wassup, or “have you eaten” in Chinese.:smiley: [/QUOTE]
my personal MA-specific favorite: “do you eat jyuk late at night?”

[QUOTE=KC Elbows;929203]I picture him in class going full Nietzsche on the students, bushy mustache and all.[/QUOTE]
TT is more of a Kantian at heart (“THIS is the categorical imperative!”, he is oft quoted as saying while brandishing a sei fong gihk), with just a touch of Wittgenstein (“whereof one cannot speak, thereof must one run off non-stop at the mouth until everyone has left, fallen asleep or committed suicide”, or something like that); although I do believe that I saw a copy of Foucault’s “Discline and Punish” lying around his school somewhere…

10

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;929163]

what I suggest:

  1. keep a low profile on and off the mat: no more extemporaneous “unofficial” history lessons to other students; you are the new kid on the block - don’t shine your light too brightly…[/QUOTE]

Good advice and I for the most part do this. Sometime when I am teaching a private lesson and giving my student a bit of history and concepts/applications, I get other students coming up to me asking question since they were watching. As was the case yesterday.

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;929163]

  1. keep it all under your hat for now w/the exception of this: explain to your sifu the situation w/the class you were in running late but don’t do a blame game on the other guy: just state that you asked to be excused and that he required you to stay until the end, no need to quote his exact words; then, ask your sifu what to do if that happens again: like that, your sifu will be aware of the situation, and will tell you what to do; probably, he will tell you that you have permission to excuse yourself - so when it does happen again, you can tell the other guy “excuse me, I have to teach a private, and sifu said I should just excuse myself if your class runs late”; this depersonalizes the situation - your sifu is there as the authority figure - use that to your advantage

[/QUOTE]

I have kept that incident under my hat. And came to a decision, since I have a private lesson to teach right after that class, not to attend that class anymore. I have the luxury of being able to attend any group class 6 days a week, so its not a big deal.

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;929163]
3) if he corrects your private students publicly, that’s fine - just let it go; if the student comes back to you and complains that they don’t know which way is correct, then you can - you guessed it - ask your sifu; just make sure that you remain very emotionally neutral whenever you do anything like that - it’s about the technique, not about you and the other guy, right?
[/QUOTE]

Does tend to undermine my teaching though. As most know there are a variety of applications within the same movement of a form. I tend to emphasize a different application to a form in comparison to about 50% of the other instructors(we have a dozen not including Sifu) I also compete in forms so my movements tend to be more flowery and exaggerated.

Good idea on getting my sifu input on the matter when it comes to that. He is always walking around watching us teach our private lesson when he is not teaching himself.

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;929163]

  1. remember, if things do become publicly acrimonious, in all likelihood you will be the one shown the door…you may be better than this guy - the question is, are you projecting that you know this?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t say I am better than him. Just more seasoned. Therefore, I believe I project a more confident teaching style than he does. But point taken, I like my current kwoon.

Good advice. Thank you!!

11

This senior student, who in his place in the school acts as captain, should thereby be blindfolded, tied to the mast, and shot in the head on his own ship, as an encouragement to the others.
In this case, simply tying him to the jong and caning would suffice.

12

tentigers is on teh wacky tabacky again

13

xcakid, I read your sig fast and thought it said, “preferably blondes or retarded,” which in some cases, is the same thing.:stuck_out_tongue:

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[QUOTE=xcakid;929223]Good advice and I for the most part do this. Sometime when I am teaching a private lesson and giving my student a bit of history and concepts/applications, I get other students coming up to me asking question since they were watching. As was the case yesterday. [/QUOTE]
in all likelyhood, the way you explain things is based on a wider and deeper understanding of TCMA than what your “senior”, with his more limited experience, is able to say; I wouldn’t be surprised if the bit you explained the other day was something he had been asked before and had no idea how to answer…

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223]I have kept that incident under my hat. And came to a decision, since I have a private lesson to teach right after that class, not to attend that class anymore. I have the luxury of being able to attend any group class 6 days a week, so its not a big deal. [/QUOTE]
fair enough; although, it would seem a shame that you feel inhibited from attending the class just because of this - I mean, if you don’t like the class because of the guy who teaches it, that’s one thing, but not attending it because he interferes w/your ability to do your job correctly is another; just sayin’…

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223]Does tend to undermine my teaching though.[/QUOTE]
of course it does; and because he knows that you are conscientious and care about the students, he’s using this as a supposed weakness in a way that invites public confrontation; which is what he wants, because you know he’s gonna try to rake you over the coals for being an upstart if you do confront him; classic ploy; the problem is that he does it at the student’s expense, dragging them into it, using them as bait; which is unethical; he’s an aszhole for doing that (if he really cared, he’d take you aside privately, and ask you about what you showed them and discussed with you why it was “wrong”, or whatever, and resolve it in a way that wouldn’t create conflict);
the “solution” is to practice non-attachment: it’s not “your” teaching, it’s just “teaching”; they are not your students anyway, ultimately not your responsibility, they are your sifu’s - and it’s is job to make sure that his instructors do not behave in a way that causes disharmony in the school

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223] As most know there are a variety of applications within the same movement of a form. I tend to emphasize a different application to a form in comparison to about 50% of the other instructors(we have a dozen not including Sifu) I also compete in forms so my movements tend to be more flowery and exaggerated. [/QUOTE]
again, you may be doing something apps-wise that he looks at and goes “dayum, wish I’d thought of that…” and so he gets all sore; ego…

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223]Good idea on getting my sifu input on the matter when it comes to that. He is always walking around watching us teach our private lesson when he is not teaching himself. [/QUOTE]
let him be the “fall guy”, it’s what he gets paid for…

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223]I wouldn’t say I am better than him. Just more seasoned. Therefore, I believe I project a more confident teaching style than he does.[/QUOTE]
probably a more confident everything; your attitude is that, while he is your senior, you don’t “need” anything from him; he probably also sees that your sifu has more of a collegial relationship with you than with him because of your background and that irks him

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223] But point taken, I like my current kwoon. [/QUOTE]
exactly - despite his personal feelings, your sifu will, if he’s smart, stick with the guys who have been with him longer…

[QUOTE=xcakid;929223]Good advice. Thank you!![/QUOTE]
I am just channeling what my sifu would probably say in this sort of a situation, as he has been a great guide for me in these sorts of matters; but thank you and you are welcome; good luck, hope it works out

15

[QUOTE=TenTigers;929227]This senior student, who in his place in the school acts as captain, should thereby be blindfolded, tied to the mast, and shot in the head on his own ship, as an encouragement to the others.
[/QUOTE]

I won’t even bother with a school if they don’t have a mast.

16

Taai gihk yahn is spot on.

Sometimes, coworkers suck. Sometimes, they get better, sometimes, they get fired. If you spend your work time always dealing with their garbage, instead of what you need to be doing, they win.

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[QUOTE=TenTigers;929227]This senior student, who in his place in the school acts as captain, should thereby be blindfolded, tied to the mast, and shot in the head on his own ship, as an encouragement to the others.
In this case, simply tying him to the jong and caning would suffice.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=KC Elbows;929244]I won’t even bother with a school if they don’t have a mast.[/QUOTE]

that’s it: I’m opening a school, calling it Bounty Martial Arts, and having students rotate weekly in the rolls of Bligh and Fletcher…

18

lol :d lol :d

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Sounds to me that it’s a personal problem between you two guys. It happens all the time. Most people are mature enough to handle it but if you feel that the school is not big enough for both you guys you might want to consider another school.

I had a situation at my school with a guy that, for the most part, everybody groans when they see him coming!:smiley: In any case sometimes during practice hour I would go in to help lower belts. While I’m in the middle of working with someone this guy comes up to correct minute little details, “No, you’re doing it wrong! That fist should be at the waist line instead of an inch below.” After about the third time of interupting me while I was training I simply told the guy to F off. He did and since then everything has been fine.

Does the other guy know how you feel?

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[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;929246]that’s it: I’m opening a school, calling it Bounty Martial Arts, and having students rotate weekly in the rolls of Bligh and Fletcher…[/QUOTE]

LOL.:smiley:

I’ve known a couple of people who learned their gun defenses from the Grapes of Wrath Martial Academy for the Mentally Challenged. They were really nice folk, good people. Haven’t run into them since they finished their form, though.