Originally posted by yenhoi
What footwork and entries did you learn at the mma school if you didnt learn how to slip?
I was only there for about 1 semester. They were all obsessed with grappling so we didn’t do much standup stuff. The footwork and entries and stuff I know is mostly wing chun stuff.
Hmm, now that I think about it, I think I have a JKD tape that shows some boxing stuff on it.
simple, you just need to play lots of fight video games: tekken, mortal combat, vice city, etc.
thats how we all learned, all the training talk is just a cover-up.
Now where’s Ralek when you need him?
Ironfist
I know you said you don’t care for forms but that is the one of the way you train to improve your punching. It is a slow traditional process, but it is valid.
You are strong but you say when you hit it doesn’t have much power. It is because your inter/intra-muscle coordination hasn’t developed.
Anatomically, your antagonist muscles are probably still tense, your agonist muscles aren’t all firing at same time, you probably done a lot of bodybuilding type of weight training right? therefore you are probably puching with a lot of slow twitch muscles, and your fast twich hasn’t been develped fully,etc… It is a complex process, hence champion fighters aren’t made in 60 days.
Without having to see what you are doing, it will be hard to give advice, but nevertheless…
If your wrist is buckling, try to relax all the muscles while puching and throw your fist out as fast as you can; at the last instant before impact tense all your muscles at the same time. Especially your forearm.
And I agree with your assesment of wraps on the fist. That is why boxers break their knuckles when they actually punch people without their gloves. You are practicing martial arts not a combat sport.
Originally posted by Cung-Fu
And I agree with your assesment of wraps on the fist. That is why boxers break their knuckles when they actually punch people without their gloves. You are practicing martial arts not a combat sport.
Actually … boxers break their hands when punching without gloves because they punch so **** hard. It’s rather easy to break your hand when punching someone’s head.
That said, I’m still with you. I don’t wrap my hands either, but striking someone’s head repeatedly bare-knuckled might not be the best idea if I intend to keep my hands unbroken. That’s why we have elbows. =)
Yes they do punch fcking hard. But coupled with their lack of conditioning in striking anything harder than a bag filled with foam rubber is why they break their hands.
And if your bones are comparitively weak in the hands and your muscles aren’t adapted to strike without gloves/wraps to support, guess what will happen when you hit one of the hardest bones in the body (skull)… Broken knuckles.
Why do you think martial artist of ALL styles strike hard objects as oppose to just heavy bags.
You think Mas Oyama will break his knuckles on your head?
Actually, the “boxer’s fracture” is classically a fracture of the pinky. It comes from almost-missing with a hook while punching with a horizontal fist, which is something you can get away with wearing gloves but not bareknuckled. Which is why old school or MMA/street oriented trainers will teach hooks with a vertical fist.
[i]Yes they do punch fcking hard. But coupled with their lack of conditioning in striking anything harder than a bag filled with foam rubber is why they break their hands.
And if your bones are comparitively weak in the hands and your muscles aren’t adapted to strike without gloves/wraps to support, guess what will happen when you hit one of the hardest bones in the body (skull)… Broken knuckles.
Why do you think martial artist of ALL styles strike hard objects as oppose to just heavy bags.
You think Mas Oyama will break his knuckles on your head?[/i]
Silly-talk.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Daredevil
[B]
Actually … boxers break their hands when punching without gloves because they punch so **** hard. It’s rather easy to break your hand when punching someone’s head.
That said, I’m still with you. I don’t wrap my hands either, but striking someone’s head repeatedly bare-knuckled might not be the best idea if I intend to keep my hands unbroken. That’s why we have elbows. =) [/B]
DD took the post right off my keyboard. Yes, boxers break because they have so much punching power, and they are using it to punch a hard area, like the head. I don’t use wraps either, but my wrist doesn’t buckle when I punch. Since IF’s does, I think he should use them, but then stop as his wrists get stronger.
Edit: The incorrect broke it’s pinky while attempting a horizontal fisted hook on FD because his head is full of the correct.
Originally posted by Cung-Fu
Yes they do punch fcking hard. But coupled with their lack of conditioning in striking anything harder than a bag filled with foam rubber is why they break their hands.
Really? Please provide proof of that.
Why do you think martial artist of ALL styles strike hard objects as oppose to just heavy bags.
I’ve seen more than a few MA break their hands in a fight. Where was their iron palm then? If you punch wrong, you run the risk of breaking your hand. period.
You think Mas Oyama will break his knuckles on your head?
sure I do. If he tries a horizontal hook and hits with his pinky, he’s also susceptible.
I am 99% certain you don’t have a weak wrist problem. You probably just aren’t lined up right. Hang your bag and go hit it. 
Not the boxing glove thing again. Ugh…
Originally posted by Merryprankster
Not the boxing glove thing again. Ugh…
Yeah, found one in my glove again the other day… wtf is that anyway? And how do you get so many legs on something which essentially has no body…? :eek:
Another pair of gloves ruined. 
I found this on that site yenhoi posted a link to:
http://www.sageartsunlimited.com/traininginfo/handouts/phase1/p1_shadowbox.html
check it out.
As an unrelated rant, I was looking through a list of techniques on that site, and I saw “thai kick” I HATE that. So many people use “thai kick” as if the style only has one kick. First, there is way more than one kick, and second, there are so many variations of the roundhouse found in MT that merely saying “thai kick” wouldn’t indicate anything. Ah well, end of rant.
Cung-Fu said:
I know you said you don’t care for forms but that is the one of the way you train to improve your punching. It is a slow traditional process, but it is valid.
Maybe I’ll do them as a warmup. I only really know one form anymore, which is Sil Lim Tao, the first wing chun form. It’s an alright form, as it covers most of the upper body techniques in the style (I’m sure some people will argue against that, but don’t bother). But I’m not one of those people who spends 30 minutes doing the first 2 movements of it because I think it’s going to give me super power or something :rolleyes:
Anatomically, your antagonist muscles are probably still tense, your agonist muscles aren’t all firing at same time, you probably done a lot of bodybuilding type of weight training right?
I love this. Bodybuilding training, or any weightlifting at all, does not work antagonist muscles along with the muscles being trained. Doing barbell curls, for example, doesn’t work the triceps (unless you consciously contract them, which 99.9% of people don’t do, nor have they ever thought of doing it). Why does everyone assume that weightlifting makes you suck at punching because of “antagonist muscles.” But anyway, this topic is not the topic of this thread so let’s not talk about it.
therefore you are probably puching with a lot of slow twitch muscles,
Uh, the muscles that fire when you do something are dependent upon the load placed on them. If you do something requiring slow twich muscles, the slow ones will fire. If you do something that requires fast twitch muscles, they will fire.
I appreciate your insight, Cung-Fu, I’m just showing you that physiologically speaking, it’s not entirely correct. No offence.
If your wrist is buckling, try to relax all the muscles while puching and throw your fist out as fast as you can; at the last instant before impact tense all your muscles at the same time. Especially your forearm.
I try to do that
FatherDog said:
Actually, the “boxer’s fracture” is classically a fracture of the pinky. It comes from almost-missing with a hook while punching with a horizontal fist, which is something you can get away with wearing gloves but not bareknuckled. Which is why old school or MMA/street oriented trainers will teach hooks with a vertical fist.
Really? I was taught to hook with a vertical fist 
I remember asking the guy who taught me, “isn’t it supposed to be a horizontal fist?” He gave me some reason for the vertical fist but I forgot what it was, but he said that’s how he learned and that’s how I’ve been doing it.
I heard that Jack Dempsey taught, at least in his book (which is out of print and hard to find), that the jab should be done with a vertical fist, too. Or something like that.
SevenStar said:
Since IF’s does, I think he should use them, but then stop as his wrists get stronger.
How are my wrists going to get stronger if I use wraps? Your back and abs don’t get stronger when you use a lifting belt.
[i]I found this on that site yenhoi posted a link to:
http://www.sageartsunlimited.com/tr…_shadowbox.html[/i]
Thanks
Here’s some new info for you guys. When I’m hitting a wing chun wall bag, I can usually hit it pretty hard with not much wrist buckling. But when I go to hit a heavy bag, then I suck. My wrists buckle sometimes, and I don’t appear to be hitting it very hard at all.
But you can’t really do boxing punches on a wall bag. Or at least I can’t. I can do boxing punches in the air, against focus mitts, or on a heavy bag (weakly). When I was in MMA class I even had the guy who was teaching me boxing punches say that my hook (vertical fist :D) was pretty hard when I hit the focus mitts he was holding, although it may have just been to encourage me.
And then with Wing Chun punches, I can do them on a dummy (with padding) fairly hard, and against a wall bag fairly hard, but when I do them on focus mitts or on a heavy bag it’s like they’re nothing, like I’m just slapping it and not doing any damage.
Why is that?
Why is that?
Are you stepping when/before you punch? Power from punching comes from structure (alignment) and footwork.
While you are thinking about horizontal and vertical fists… notice which provides more “cover” at different “ranges.” Although its such a small and nearly insignificant difference. I punch with vertical fists almost all the time unless someone is at the very end of my reach for straight punches.
Whats your wall bag filled with? Im instructed to not hit the wall bag with any real power, just to drop my palms into it for hand conditioning. You should be able to pop it with straight punches very hard. “Jabs” and “Crosses” are straight punches.
Funny you mention Dempsey… stickgrappler just added 4 more chapters of his book at http://go.to/stickgrappler
Check out the boxing and jkd sections, there is a huge thread on there about developing concrete smashing punches with a wall bag, lots of time, and visualization.
7*: Phase 1 people only learn the “thai kick” and the teep as far as thai kicks go. They dont learn thai boxing. Although Im sure that school also offers “Thai Boxing” classes as opposed to “JKD.”
:eek:
With Partner:
by yourself:
I don’t really believe to much in shadow boxing and stuff like that by yourself. Sometime i feel it forms bad habits when no none is there to pick out faults. Personally when i do pad work (and most peole won’t like this) we hit each other in the head instead of using pads. We do this medium speed to A. Learn distance B. Get used to getting hit.
As Rhadi says
“When your by yourself train til you puke, when you train with others train like your lazy”
Brad Souders
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]
7*: Phase 1 people only learn the “thai kick” and the teep as far as thai kicks go. They dont learn thai boxing. Although Im sure that school also offers “Thai Boxing” classes as opposed to “JKD.”
:eek: [/B]
Yeah, I realize that. I know it’s not actually a thai boxing class, it just irks me to hear the thai roundhouse referred to as the “thai kick”. Alot of people I know ask me about the kicks of muay thai, because all they ever see is the roundhouse. It’s like the staple kick of MT and thus, the only one they know. Consequently, it’s called “the thai kick” I’ve even got some old issues (from like the early 90’s) of IK and IKF where styles will be showing their means of defending against other styles tactics, and they say “defense against the thai kick” argh…
I dunno where its at, Im sure its at stickgrappler’s tho. There is so much stuff there.
:eek: