Keeping in mind the reality of violence, as that is what this particular forum is on, how important would you all say is fluidity in your motion? Do you need it to fight effectively? Ive seen many many people who have no idea what it is to flow with energy, nor do they have any control of their own…they may win some fights, but is it luck? Lets here everyone’s thoughts on this…
“From one thing know ten thousand” - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings
“Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung”
“need”? No. But it is important and very useful.
I would agree that it makes you more effective, but it’s not necessary. Often, in a self-defense situation, it’s not how you flow (since my first priority is to make enuf space to run), but how you deal with having your flow broken.
I second what fmann said.
Flow is automatic.
A circle is a curved line that meets-up with itself. Not everyone would look at a circle and say line. They might hane no concious idea about flow, yet it might be likely that they did flow when they won. Flow happens with each motion. The more motions the greater the likeliness of inhibited flow in the overall action(s).
A line is made-up of points.
Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.
I think fluidity is a great thing to practice as it helps keep a constantance of the mind.
Do you mean as fluidity with your own movements, or fluidity by following, and yielding to his movements?
What is a tree without it’s roots? What is a martial art without its basics?
Fluidity
I do not feel that fluidity is necessary to fight or even win a fight. I do think that having fluidity in your fighting style is an advantage. If you are a stiff fighter than your body will usually telegraph your movements making it easier for your opponent to read and counter/counter-strike.
Continued blessings in your life and your training.
The key to understanding is to open your mind and your heart and then the eyes will follow.
What I meant…
I was actually just speaking of flow in general… so either would apply, flow of your own movements as well as flowing with the movements of your opponent. Either or, depends on how you perceive the question ya know?
I personally believe that one needs to train for fluidity. It develops an understanding of energy. That doesnt mean that a broken rythm shouldnt be developed, as I also think that is a must. After all…real music is the space between the notes right?
“From one thing know ten thousand” - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings
“Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung”
I think training fluidity is related to gaining speed and economy of motion. If you can fight so that every strike loads the next, then your attack is a flurry of movements that run one to the next with no wasted time or energy. I reckon that also takes the thinking out of things and tailors your response to your attacker’s position… you just go with what you’re loaded to execute.
It is important to be able to flow from one movement to the next. I don’t think you can really “flow” in one movement so it is more like a transition to another movement. The importance is in economy of movement and speed. If you are not flowing then you are probably spending a lot of energy stopping the current direction you are moving and then starting in a new direction. This causes you to use more energy, and take more time versus one move leading to the next and then the next, etc…
Those are my thoughts on this anyway.
Fluidity
Important? VERY! Nessisary? NO!
Think of it this way. How many schoolyard/street/bar fights have you seen where neither person has had any training? What do they look like? To me they have always looked off balance and like they were fighting their own bodies to pull off the shots they were going for.
Fluidity will help your balance. It will help control your energy as well as read/control your opponents energy. Fluidity also helps generate more speed and power.
Think of the psychological factor of speed alone. A guy picks a fight with you while a couple of his friends are standing next to and/or behind him. He is about to throw (or does throw) a punch. And in less then 3 seconds you have him on the ground (whether by knockout or takedown it doesn’t matter). How willing is he going to be to try to get back up, and how willing are his friends going to be to step up to you? I can say from one experience of my own, not very willing at all.
Just my thoughts
Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready
The streetfights I’ve seen had plenty of flow. Not much technique. But lots of flow. Presumably that’s because they’re untrained. There isn’t such a thing as technique to them at that moment. Just aggression and the resulting movement.
I think martial artists are much more prone to suffer a lack of flow because we’re the ones who break fighting down into it’s component parts, analyze those parts, and then put the whole thing back together in the hopes that it will become organic again.
We get tied up in wondering “Am I doing a good roundhouse? Or a good block?” Instead of viewing the whole experience as a whole experience.
To the untrained, a fight is a fight. One experience. To many of us, it’s a series of blocks, kicks, punches, takedowns, etc. Each to be performed as technically proficiently as possible. I think that can very often result in a lack of flow. Each technique becomes an end to itself and we loose track of the bigger picture.
What do you think?
Stuart B.
Stuart
I was thinking hard about your post, and then about my training, and what I told to my own students.
You’re indeed right in my eyes. Ive found that the people that have the most trouble with fluidity are the ones who are worried about the various technicalities, the what, when, where, how, etc…
I overcame this myself by constantly using what I learned in free moving “sparring” or free drilling environments. Environments where the goal was not to make sure things were done right technically, but moreso if the principle was being adhered to and the end result was what you wanted. Now obviously at this point one must be confident in the proper execution of their techniques, as drills of this level shouldn’t even be practiced until that point of skill is met.
The people who move the best, are the ones that just move. The training is the time to evaluate and to make sure things are “being done right”. When the real things happens, one should just move, instinctively and spontaneously.
“From one thing know ten thousand” - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings
“Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung”
Vankuen,
I’ve been thinking a lot about how to overcome that myself. I like the approach you suggested.
My approach is largely visualization. I noticed that when I was sparring, I was breaking it down the same way mentally. I was thinking about hitting the opponent with a roundhouse, or a punch, or whatever. Not necessarily even specifying a technique in my head. But focusing on a hit.
The problem with that, I think, is that it creates mental speed bumps. I go to hit the opponent, and I either succeed or fail. But either way, the mental template in my head has been fulfilled. Either I hit and, feeling successful, break off the attack. Or I miss and think, “Hang on, that’s not what I was visualizing.” Then I get stymied.
So what I do now is visualize a more overarcing picture. Visualize the opponent getting backed into the corner, dropped on the floor, thoroughly overwhelmed in some way. Then I don’t stop until that template is fulfilled in my head.
Stuart B.
haha! Talk about your sadistic daydreams!
Hey man…just make sure you dont tell any pyschologists any of those visualizations you have allright? 
But something I also do to overcome this, is to create a scenario with a good group of students and fellow martial artists, best if from different areas of expertise. The person being “tested” is the butt of the joke so to speak, and the other guys are all part of the scenario to make it more realistic. Most of the time I use the typical “youre in a bar” or “youre on the street and someone tries to mug you” kind of deal. We then discuss how we could have improved our reactions after the fact, and why we failed if it was shown to have been unsuccessful.
This works really great learning to deal with groups of aggressors. You realize that most of the time the odds are against you and you will probably be hurt when the odds are too far against you, but you also learn how you would react in such a situation and whether or not you may have been able to at least live through it.
We try to bring in as many variables as possible, fake knives, or guns, whatever. The thing is that the person or persons under “pressure” are not going to know the scenario before hand. They will just have to deal with the situation, sometimes, it doesnt even get to a physical level if I think theyve used good psychology to talk the person(s) down. But most of the time its a whoop ass fest. haha!
Just some food for thought my man.
“From one thing know ten thousand” - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings
“Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung”
Vankuen,
My visualizations are mostly reserved for the sparring match. “Back him into the corner and keep him there.” That sort of thing.
Occassionally, I try the “Take him down, steal his wallet, knock up his daughter, and key his car” visualization. But not often.
[Disclaimer: The above was a joke. I didn’t really visualize keying his car.]
I’m going to have to write some of your suggestions down. That’s good stuff. Do they appear on your website, by the way? I have it bookmarked but haven’t been in a while.
Stuart B.
Hmmm I dont really remember myself.
I will check on that. I give a basic idea of where the drills come from…but I dont give away aaaallll my secrets. haha!
I will probably make the site a bit more user friendly and provide more in depth information soon. Theres a lot of info on there as it is…and so its a long process to figure out what Im going to do with it next and how Im going to do it.
I still need to update the videos. I havent done that in sometime. Spent do much time on training that Ive forgotten about the video camera!
“From one thing know ten thousand” - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings
Well, I look forward to seeing what you do with it next.
Thanks Vankuen.
Stuart B.
What is “flow”?
Smooth ballet-like soft new-age Taiji motion? In a context of a TRADITIONAL martial art like Taiji or Bagua (let alone a real streetfight), NO.
Being able to respond to an opponent’s intent and either accept it or mow through it? YES.