We have the best here, but access to the best is usually cost-prohibitive for all but the upper classes. Otherwise, our life-expectancy and infant-mortality rates would fare much better.
According to that chart, other socialized systems fare much better when it comes to the most bang for your buck.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;997511]You spend the most because you have the most graft in your system. Not because it’s the best.
patents can be purchased whether you came up with the idea or not.
money does not make mind.[/QUOTE]
Can you back up that graft assertion please.
You are wrong on patents. BTW, R&D cost is a HUGE factor for our system. See, comapnies only get a few years with a new drug they developed before generics are made available. They have to recoup all the R&D money, and turn a profit, before that time runs out. That is why new drugs cost so much.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;997513]We have the best here, but access to the best is usually cost-prohibitive for all but the upper classes. Otherwise, our life-expectancy and infant-mortality rates would fare much better.
According to that chart, other socialized systems fare much better when it comes to the most bang for your buck.[/QUOTE]
I’m not upper class. Well according to Bill Clinton I am. :rolleyes: I’ve never had an issue. And both me and my wife have had surgeries under the plan we have.
Socialized medicine systems ration care, private plans do not. Just ask anyone on Medicade or anyone who is dependent on the VA if they are happy with their care…
According to that graph, the US spends the most and has one of the lowest life expectancies.
Not a good ratio.
[QUOTE=1bad65;997517]Can you back up that graft assertion please.
You are wrong on patents. BTW, R&D cost is a HUGE factor for our system. See, comapnies only get a few years with a new drug they developed before generics are made available. They have to recoup all the R&D money, and turn a profit, before that time runs out. That is why new drugs cost so much.[/QUOTE] LOL! My father-in-law is a general practicioner, and until last year (it’s illegal now) he got lunch paid for EVERY DAY for his WHOLE OFFICE by different drug company reps, he got free sports tickets, free computer equipment, etc… All in the name of advertising their product.
That kind of behaviour went on in just about every doctor’s office in the U.S. for decades.
THAT is why drugs are so expensive HERE, and not anywhere else.
[QUOTE=1bad65;997518]I’m not upper class. Well according to Bill Clinton I am. :rolleyes: I’ve never had an issue. And both me and my wife have had surgeries under the plan we have.[/quote] Gee, a middle class white guy that grew up middle class can afford average health insurance in America. In other news, water is wet.
I have good insurance, too. But sh1t, I pay $189 per paycheck (pretax), and that’s just because my company ALSO contributes, and I also have a $2,000 family deductible (I have 2 kids). I make a decent income, but it is above average in the U.S. and certainly above average in Oklahoma.
For MANY people, insurance just costs too much, especially when you know they will raise your rates or even drop you once you make a major claim.
And my wife works in Medical Billing, so I’m not even on the tricks the insurance companies play to reject a claim, yet. Not to mention the immense WASTE that takes place just from doctors trying to get paid for services.
I grew up not being able to go to the doctor. I almost died when my appendix popped because I waited to go to the hospital because I was broke in college.
Socialized medicine systems ration care, private plans do not. Just ask anyone on Medicade or anyone who is dependent on the VA if they are happy with their care…
You tell someone on VA or Medicade that you want to take their plan away, and see how they feel about it then.
[QUOTE=1bad65;997517]Can you back up that graft assertion please.
You are wrong on patents. BTW, R&D cost is a HUGE factor for our system. See, comapnies only get a few years with a new drug they developed before generics are made available. They have to recoup all the R&D money, and turn a profit, before that time runs out. That is why new drugs cost so much.[/QUOTE]
…wow, willful ignorance.
ok then, you just keep that blindfold on and those fingers in your ears.
Remarkable! Tremendous! Outstanding! 
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;997521]According to that graph, the US spends the most and has one of the lowest life expectancies.
Not a good ratio.[/QUOTE]
QFT, right there.
In 2006, Drug Companies spent 36 billion on R&D.
That same year, they spent 73 billion on advertising.
We spend the most, because we have the best system.
Can you back up that assertion please. 
Complete list of infant mortality rates per 1,000 live births for 2004:
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081015/infant-mortality-us-ranks-29th
The World Health Organization’s ranking of the world’s health systems.
from 2000
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
…
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;997521]According to that graph, the US spends the most and has one of the lowest life expectancies.
Not a good ratio.[/QUOTE]
We have low expectancies because of our bad habits, not our medical care. Without our healthcare system, it would actually be alot worse. When 62% of your population is obese or overweight, your population will have health issues.
I’d wager that these countries who have “better” healthcare than we do don’t have obesety rates near ours.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;997522]LOL! My father-in-law is a general practicioner, and until last year (it’s illegal now) he got lunch paid for EVERY DAY for his WHOLE OFFICE by different drug company reps, he got free sports tickets, free computer equipment, etc… All in the name of advertising their product.
That kind of behaviour went on in just about every doctor’s office in the U.S. for decades.
THAT is why drugs are so expensive HERE, and not anywhere else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouF3ISihHLM[/QUOTE]
So are you telling us that the cost of drugs in the US is high because of free lunches? :rolleyes:
Well since the cause of the problem is illegal now, then the problems of high drug costs should be fixed now. Right?
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;997528]…wow, willful ignorance.
ok then, you just keep that blindfold on and those fingers in your ears.
Remarkable! Tremendous! Outstanding! :D[/QUOTE]
Why not try and refute my post with facts?
Are you denying drug companies do not spend BILLIONS annually on Research and Developement of new drugs?
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;997526]And my wife works in Medical Billing, so I’m not even on the tricks the insurance companies play to reject a claim, yet. Not to mention the immense WASTE that takes place just from doctors trying to get paid for services. [/QUOTE]
And you think there won’t be more waste when the Government runs it?!?!
Oh yeah, my bad. They’ve done such a great job running Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, The VA, the Post Office,…
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;997526]I grew up not being able to go to the doctor. I almost died when my appendix popped because I waited to go to the hospital because I was broke in college.[/QUOTE]
And look at yourself now. You’ve WORKED so you now have insurance. And you have it for your wife and kids. Your lot in life has improved. And you did it on your own. Amazing how that works, isn’t it?
[QUOTE=1bad65;997586]And look at yourself now. You’ve WORKED so you now have insurance. And you have it for your wife and kids. Your lot in life has improved. And you did it on your own. Amazing how that works, isn’t it?[/QUOTE] Actually, I was able to do it because the STATE paid for my surgery because I was a fulltime student. Without state help, I would have had to drop out of school to pay off the surgery, the week in intensive care, the 2 more weeks in the hospital, and the follow up visits to the surgeon. Not to mention all the support bills that came in (anesthesia, etc…).
Because I was UNABLE to pay at the time, and the State paid my bill, I was able to finish college a semester late and get a decent job, so my taxes could be used to help others in need. If I don’t live, I can’t work, and if I can’t work, I can’t pay my fair share of taxes to contribute to the society that helped me live in the first place.
Amazing how that works, isn’t it?
[QUOTE=1bad65;997585]Why not try and refute my post with facts?
Are you denying drug companies do not spend BILLIONS annually on Research and Developement of new drugs?[/QUOTE]
In 2006, Drug Companies spent 36 billion on R&D.
That same year, they spent 73 billion on advertising.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;997646]Actually, I was able to do it because the STATE paid for my surgery because I was a fulltime student. Without state help, I would have had to drop out of school to pay off the surgery, the week in intensive care, the 2 more weeks in the hospital, and the follow up visits to the surgeon. Not to mention all the support bills that came in (anesthesia, etc…).
Because I was UNABLE to pay at the time, and the State paid my bill, I was able to finish college a semester late and get a decent job, so my taxes could be used to help others in need. If I don’t live, I can’t work, and if I can’t work, I can’t pay my fair share of taxes to contribute to the society that helped me live in the first place.
Amazing how that works, isn’t it?[/QUOTE]
Dang Masterkiller.
Are you suggesting that since you were the beneficiary of SOCIALISM.. and you now own a BUSINESS… that assistance from public source has made you a more effective capitalist?
But.. I thought everyone who couldn’t afford American medical care was a deadbeat welfare queen.
(end sarcasm)
[QUOTE=dimethylsea;997648]Dang Masterkiller.
Are you suggesting that since you were the beneficiary of SOCIALISM.. and you now own a BUSINESS… that assistance from public source has made you a more effective capitalist?
But.. I thought everyone who couldn’t afford American medical care was a deadbeat welfare queen.
(end sarcasm)[/QUOTE]
My experiences just provide a different perspective.
I grew up without insurance, and though my dad worked his @ss off, he just never made much. He dropped out of school when he was 15, lied about his age and joined the ARMY Air Force in WWII. He drove a tractor in Hawaii and built landing strips for air planes, but that didn’t translate into a very usable skill, so he basically relied on sweat and blood to put food on the table for me and my 3 brothers. He worked 6 days a week ever since I can remember, retired at 67 on his Social Security benefits, and had a massive stroke when he was 71. He didn’t die for 3 years, but was incapacitated and required around the clock assistance. Medicare covered almost all of it.
A socialist cop hater? Isn’t that a contradiction?