Here it is folks.The big question, can you grapple with Bak Mei?
General disclaimer: Mantis108 and/or any Bak Mei practitioner is not responsible in any way or form responsible for any injuries and/or damages caused by the practicing or applying the following moves.
Allan puts me in his mount and applies a choke. I immediately apply the opening move in Shek Si
Follow through and created space.
Grabbed his bicep with tigher claws (as in the Shek Si sequence)
Grab Allan’s biceps with tiger claws (close up)
using Sheung Gord Jeung (upper cut palm) and take Allan down
Use tiger claws to control Allan.
Tiger claws on the throat and the bicep. Note the elbows are sinked (close up)
Also Note that, I am only temporary in his guard and I haven’t developed a base because the serie is supposed to happen in a very short time frame and we are more concern to show the hands instead. The hands are more rigid to show what they resemble in the form. In a real situation the hands are more fluid and don’t look like in the pictures. I think we pretty much see here that we can grapple with Bak Mei. Enjoy
I totally agree mantis, while training (YKM) we search through the forms to see where grappling skills come in. Since YKM’s external forms are Pakmei and I’ve also studied some pakmei itself I feel I can comment on this.
In YKM our 7th level is Dai Sut Kuen ( Ground Killing Fist), loaded with ground fighting and grappling skills but if you look at most forms they can be adapted.
Good to see you are looking beyond the obvious applications and seeing the"deeper application and expression " of pakmei.
Looks good mantis,I’ve grappled using Bai Mei
although I didn’t intend for it to go to the ground,I didn’t intend for the fight to happen
to began with,I used the cutting hand close to what your pics show,it worked,I also used,doulble
sinking elbows and tiger claw to the eyes(don’t know the chinese names,you can find this movement in Nine-Step-Push) and open mouth(the mouth will open when the eyes are gouged)there is a pressure point on the jaw muscle
outside of the teeth that can be hooked with the thumb while the other fingers clamp,twist and tear.I was not aiming for the mouth it happened to get in the way and my thumb hooked in the right place.
Very effective,this will get your attackers attention(and a trip to the ER)I don’t belive the NHB matches
would allow this but it is a life saver.
A very brutal system indeed.
Mantis, you still need to keep in mind though if a true grappler gets you in this position he is most likely to move his legs further up to try to pin your arms above your head and then go to town on it so if you can get this move started before he gets there then you have a chance. Pressure are always good to go for.
tnwingtsun- are you refering to the Temporomandibular Joint ?
i wouldnt use that technique because 1) its to weak and 2) easily countered by scissor hands and he will pin them, then you are really up sh!t creek.
but thats me, it may work for you! i wouldnt use 2 hands to the throat, maybe yee loong gim jee to the throat or eyes while the other hand is pulling down at the elbow and then fire the phoenix eye punch from the elbow to the throat, then turn the body the flick the guy off for you to be on top.
Looks interesting, is always good to take concepts and moves and apply to them to different situations. Tnwingstun any other things from bak mei or any other system you practice that you have applied to the ground? Mantis keep up exploring your system and ways to use it.
Humbly yours
You say you study a Japanese art !? Nam Ying Jow sounds chinese???
I never made reference to Pakmei external forms only Yau Kung Mun’s, try reading the post again.Though I’m sure we just had this discussion!
If you have questions about this please leave it off this thread.
Bai Mei/Pak Mei is both internal and external,
YKM is a branch or a brother art to Bai Mei
they are very close from what I gather,they have the same roots coming from Cheng Lai Cheung,
YKM having influncence from a Shoalin Monk
in addition to CLC,YKM guys could tell you more on this,also I belive YKM has Bai Mei internal
as well,Jek Bo(straight foward),Nine-Step-Push
and Fierest Tiger out of the Forest being Bai Mei
internal.
BIU JI,I’ll have to ask my sister the nurse
on the name,its easy to find,its in front of the
muscle where the jaw hinges,you can press your
finger there and find the nerve without
going to the inside of the mouth,my Bai Mei Sifu’s
younger brother who is a Yi Chuan Sifu
used to stop by class and play with us from
time to time,he liked to grab that nerve and
belive me theres no way you can bite down on
the thumb,it paralizes your jaw,ever seen a mother grab her child by the ear??get the picture?
Damn helpless feeling.
Thank you all for your support and comments. I would like to address your comments in a general answer.
Is this the single most effective technique(s) when grapple with Bak Mei? Properly not. There are myraid of techniques in the Bak Mei arsenal or any other fighting system (including the NHB and MMA)for that matter. But then we have to ask ourselves as Bak Mei stylists that would this move capable of demonstating a stylized fighting system, such as Bak Mei, is ground range compatable? Is this move adhere to Bak Mei principles; therefore, articulates what the style stands for? Can the 6 powers be found? Are the Tun To Fao Chum there? Does the move exhits all the short hand characteristics? Is there an expression of the spirit of the tiger and leopard shown? I would say yes to all of them. This move as a teaching tool to articulate the style’s principles by using a grappling activity as a stimulus has in my mind proven the versatility of Bak Mei. These days, we have heard so many lost faith and hope in traditional arts and jump to fore gone conclusion that there are no stylized fighting but a uniform looking system like the MMA. Traditional styles are not dinosaurs and certainly not on the endanger list. If only we can make this clear and bring this point across. With this thread I hope we are moving toward that direction and understanding.
BTW,
tnwingtsun, glad you can relate to the move.
F.T. the move has 2 things going for it - body mechanics and element of surprise beside using power and speed. Thanks for the comment and I hear your concern. The counter to what you suggested is a bit off the scope of this thread so I will leave them for now if you don’t mind.
nice post mate, the reason i wouldnt use the move from sek see is because you are using 2 hands in the weakest position INSIDE THE PERSONS SHOULDERS. (innergate) the opponent is stronger at pulling inwards than he is outwards. yes i would use only one hand to do those sek see moves while the other is doing something else, never together!
so it would be easy to be closed off and pinned if you see what i mean.
nam ying jow, to clear things up abit! we(ykm) call the sets of bak mei external because we have 3 internal forms that are slow moving meditations. yes we know that bak mei in an internal and external style, no need to carry on!!
:rolleyes:
Read my profile for my background,although
its not complete I should be more humble,
I am but a beginner like you,you seem to have alot of knowledge for a beginner,I feel that you already know that the so called external
Bai Mei sets are internal at the core,only external at the start,the hightest levels in Wingtsun always goes back
to Siu Nim Dau,a foundation.
I have friends in Denmark,where might you be?
Interesting post and some great pics and thought put into this… but… (don’t you hate “buts”)
Try those movements against someone less compliant and someone that has set a personal goal to pound your head into the floor. Going for the throat would of course still be a good idea but I would just punch the guy in the larnyx and get it all over with(hopefully not crushing it or dislodging it)..
I don’t mean any insult, I mean they are good ideas. Think about what you would do if you were on top. Would you just sit there or would you be hitting the guy under you. that position is a very bad one to be in and the defense for it is limited. Chances are you are going to get hit several times no matter what you do to defend yourself. With any luck the hits won’t knock you out. IMHO
ESR
Why not punch to crush the larnyx? If as you say the guy has a personal goal to pound your head into the ground I know I sure as hell wouldn’t hold back . If you’re talking about legal reason I understand but if it’s life or death it’s pull all pins as he may do just the same.
Maybe it appears too much but in this situation what’s the option?
Just kidding.