# Good Fighting = Good MA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Wing Chun\ **Created:** [May 14, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004 "2002-05-14T15:48:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/1 "2002-05-14T15:48:43Z")
The grados string got me thinking. what is the difference between good wing chun and good fighting? Does having good wing chun make you a good fighter? If you fight well and study wing chun, do you have good wing chun? Can you be one and not the other, as far as can you have good wing chun and not be a good fighter? ---
**Author:** ![mun\_hung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@mun\_hung](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/mun_hung)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/2 "2002-05-14T15:59:59Z")
Sure, why not? There are probably plenty of people on this board who are “good Wing Chun people” who probably can’t fight a lick. LOL 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yuanfen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecae2f/32.png) [@yuanfen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yuanfen)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/3 "2002-05-14T16:07:21Z")
A complete wing chun person should be anbe to fight with his/her wing chun. But one doesnt have to be wing chun person in order to fight. No contradiction between those two propositions IMO ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/4 "2002-05-14T16:17:44Z")
Mun hung - you are kidding right? ---
**Author:** ![kj1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/kj1/32/106_2.png) [@kj1](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/kj1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/5 "2002-05-14T16:21:23Z")
> Originally posted by yuanfen > A complete wing chun person should be anbe to fight with his/her wing chun. But one doesnt have to be wing chun person in order to fight. No contradiction between those two propositions IMO Buried within your message is another important distinction, overlooked more often than not: that of someone with capability to fight when they must, and someone who chooses to fight even when unnecessary. Regards, - Kathy Jo ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/6 "2002-05-14T16:26:47Z")
Good point KJ, this is true as well. ---
**Author:** ![mun\_hung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@mun\_hung](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/mun_hung)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/7 "2002-05-14T17:12:48Z")
Red5A - I was kidding. 🙂 Fighting comes from the heart as well as the hands. When it comes to fighting - It’s not the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog. ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/8 "2002-05-14T17:43:00Z")
Munhung - agreed! Just had to make sure! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yuanfen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecae2f/32.png) [@yuanfen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yuanfen)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 6:05pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/9 "2002-05-14T18:05:49Z")
mun hung sez ## There are probably plenty of people on this board who are “good Wing Chun people” who probably can’t fight a lick. LOL A pointless, gratuitous and speculative comment. Who is that supposed to impress? ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/10 "2002-05-14T18:35:07Z")
I took it like he was implying there are people out there, or on this board that woudl say you could have good wing chun but not be a good fighter. I believe there are people we may come across who would say that to have good wing chun is possible and still not be able to fight. the joke would be in that Wing Chun is a fighting art. For some of us, like me, I would say that if you cannot fight well using your wing chun you do not have good wing chun. My opinion of course. ---
**Author:** ![mun\_hung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@mun\_hung](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/mun_hung)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/11 "2002-05-14T23:45:34Z")
yuanfen - did I strike a nerve? Pointless? Really? Are you trying to hurt my feelings again? ☹ red5a - Bravo! At least someone got my joke. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kungfu\_cowboy](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/kungfu_cowboy/32/71_2.png) [@kungfu\_cowboy](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/kungfu_cowboy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/12 "2002-05-15T00:26:11Z")
I think someone can be excellent technically, but still be useless when it really goes down. You can do all the forms well, all the drills well, do chi sao well, and still be unable to fight in a real world situation, if you do not have the right mental resources for it. (Calm, Cool, Collected, and on Autopilot) ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Dog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/alpha_dog/32/282_2.png) [@Alpha\_Dog](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alpha_Dog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/13 "2002-05-15T01:47:02Z")
Yet another self-serving “I am not good at Wing Chun but that’s okay because I am a good fighter (or whatever)” thread, penned and pondered by those who are too impatient to learn Wing Chun, most likely because deep down they don’t really like it. It’s already beating you. Just like the psycho in Silence of The Lambs, come Hell or High Water you (believe you) will force others to accept you for what you are not. ---
**Author:** ![Sabu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sabu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Sabu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/14 "2002-05-15T04:06:37Z")
Fighting is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary, but sometimes hurting is not. ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/15 "2002-05-15T15:18:06Z")
Munhung - I am with ya buddy! 😉 Kungfu Cowboy - Thats exactly what I am talking about. If you can do it ‘techinically’ well but not in a fight is that good wing chun? It may look pretty or flashy but what the hell does that mean? Why bother if you cant use it to fight? For Qiong reasons? Other arts better suited for that? For health, same thing. AD - shouldnt talk about good wing chun, havent "Seen"it from you, your mouth boxing isnt even that good. your subtleties are not subtle and your allusions are more illusion I think. Sabu - I disagree, fighting can be necessary, in many cases it might be the only option. I am not trianing wing chun to avoid a fight, I have other better suited skills for that, Wing chun is for when those skills fail. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yuanfen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecae2f/32.png) [@yuanfen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yuanfen)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/16 "2002-05-15T15:58:31Z")
re;red5angel’s comments on ad and sabu AD - shouldnt talk about good wing chun, havent "Seen"it from you, your mouth boxing isnt even that good. your subtleties are not subtle and your allusions are more illusion I think. Sabu - I disagree, fighting can be necessary, in many cases it might be the only option. I am not trianing wing chun to avoid a fight, I have other better suited skills for that, Wing chun is for when those skills fail. ---------------------------------------red5angel; your comment to ad is unnecessarily personal IMO…I have not seen either good real boxing or mouth boxing knowledge in your posts. And- you have not completely represented sabu’s comment either…note the rest-on hurting(as opposed to fighting). ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Dog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/alpha_dog/32/282_2.png) [@Alpha\_Dog](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alpha_Dog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/17 "2002-05-15T16:08:52Z")
Red > Originally posted by red5angel > > AD - shouldnt talk about good wing chun, havent "Seen"it from you, your mouth boxing isnt even that good. your subtleties are not subtle and your allusions are more illusion I think. First, I have no interest in even pretending to engage any of your “discussions” (when you let someone get a word in edgewise) because you can’t discern knowledge from opinion, and the insights into Wing Chun that I have observed from you are pretty weak at best. I’m no expert myself, but I don’t have to be to say what I’m about to. Take your grand wisdom about the symantical differences in the ways in which East and West use words like “master,” for example – where do you get this alleged knowledge? Have you lived both worlds? Or what of your other ridiculous claims like “most people practicing Wing Chun out there are just doing weak, watered-down, pointless exercises in wasting their own time, practicing wrongly, blah blah…” Again, how is it that you can speak for the masses so clearly? And what about your ability to chastise practitioners of Wing Chun with 27 more years of experience than you have? Please tell me this is all a big joke, that you’re just trolling! Second, I don’t have to mouth-box; as i have just shown, with you there is nothing to argue because you are already so much more “learned” than everyone else (Carl must be a brilliant teacher indeed), or else your real intention is to be deliberately annoying. Finally, if you weren’t so thick (I don’t believe you are a troll, after all) you might have noticed the subtleties of others, whom you have undoubtedly bored away from here, suggesting that you do more listening and less talking. If I am not subtle with you, again it is because such courtesies are proven lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/18 "2002-05-15T16:51:02Z")
AD - “because you can’t discern knowledge from opinion,” this problem wouldnt seem to be exclusive to me apparently. “Take your grand wisdom” not grand just much more expressive then a few obscure lines stolen from philosophy books, I can think for myself not plagerize others. "Or what of your other ridiculous claims " Not ridiculous, I am just one of the few who have not deluded themselves. 😉 “speak for the masses so clearly” read comment on first quote. Reread until thoroughly understood. Atleast I speak to the masses and not to myself hoping others will hear. “chastise practitioners of Wing Chun with 27 more years of experience than you have” Age does not make one great. If you burn ppancakes for 27 years, it doesnt make you an expert pancake cooker, just an expert pancake burner. “I don’t have to mouth-box” this is the first non-MB post you have laid down in some time, congratulations, you are correct, you do not mouth box, well anyway. "if you weren’t so thick " Its the muscle one developes from weightlifting. I would go with meaty as that has much better connotations. “whom you have undoubtedly bored away from here, suggesting that you do more listening and less talking. If I am not subtle with you, again it is because such courtesies are proven lost on you.” This one is my favorite. An excellent way to end your post as well. I have had plenty of responses, to those who are civil, and have the skill you point out in your first quote, (see above) they have seen my opinion and dont mind discussing differences. neither do I. Most of the talking here is not worth listening to. A few diamonds in the rough, the rest is garbage, just my opinion of course. 😉 You 'subtlety is not to be mistaken with courtesy. Courtesy implies kindness and atleast respect, you have shown little for anyone posting here, but thanks for not being ‘subtle’. If th courtesy has been lost I apologize for being ‘thick’ as I have stated, to me courtesy would mean a good explanation with offhand comments about how others suck or thier post are trash. Atleast with me you get an explanation as to why I feel that way. thanks for listening, or not. ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/19 "2002-05-15T16:56:46Z")
Yuanfen - I answered as much of Sabus post as I felt needed to be answered. Feel free to address anything you feel needs to be. As for boxing, because your and my techniques differ doesnt make both of us wrong. 😉 I tried my hand at maintaining peace, now I will express myself like the rest of you ad talk freely but without the confines of political correctness in how we do things. Just because you do a thing differently doesnt make ‘differently’ right. ---
**Author:** ![Sabu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sabu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Sabu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004/20 "2002-05-15T17:27:02Z")
red5angel You are so out of line, it is quite hilarious. Even my elephant is laughing. You should stick to your basics, red5angel, for as long as possible. You only do damage to yourself, playing at someone else’s level, something you don’t understand. [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/good-fighting-good-ma/12004.md?page=2)