Hi every one,
Is it possible for some one to tell my what are their solutions or their sifus’ experiences when they have to fight people at the age above 65?
I know western boxers usually do not fight people in the ring after reaching 42, because of lack of stamina and old age. If this is the case then why are elderly fencers and kendo practitioners can still win younger players with average skills in those sport.
According to one of the most famous fencers in 1930s, he had seem elderly fencers easily winning against 20-30 old fencing players with average skills. However, he had not seem any elderly players winning against younger players in any other sport.
Certainly those elderly practitioners do not win, because they are very fit or do conditioning exercises every day. What are their secrets?
Experience!!! The more experienced fighter knows that the opponent’s strength and speed can be used against them.. and, typically, strength and speed build a false sense of superiority..
Never underestimate the Old Dog. Youth has that arrogance and that physical strength that can prevail in certain situations. but the experienced and older fighter is going to be a few steps ahead.
of course realistically speaking if the older guy is not as in shape or maintains his health,then it is likely that the younger and stronger fighter is going to own him. even if the older guy is more experienced as a martial artist. you need to have that health ,stamina and strength maintained.
it really might depend on how old one be talking about
but in reality, the young have great advantage over the old
fencing and unnarmed fighting are diferent becouse in fencing you dont need that much power and the fight is over quickly
when unnarmerd power and stamina will be very important
fencers & kendo pratcitoners don’t get VIOLENTLY KNOCKED OUT in competition…seriously man, that’s a silly comparision
???
i would think Evander Holyfield/Mike Tyson, as past their prime as pro boxing goes, taught a little fencing would do pretty well, considering they’re both in better physical condition than **** near everyone on this forum.
edit
i mean i understand what you’re getting at, but, that was a lousy comparison, the answer’s obvious
The old should fear the young when it comes to fists. The young should fear the old when it comes to weapons.
With that said, my master is 64 and still beats me up, and I haven’t seen him bested yet by a visitor… and there are plenty. They usualy decide to train with him afterwards.
Yep it pretty much comes down to experience and skill level. You of course will need to maintain your health and stamina. Compare it to chess, you see when it comes down to it fighting (between experts) is very much more mental then it is physical, the physical aspects are there just so your body is capable of doing what your mind wills it to, as in chess the more experienced and skilled player will see many moves ahead the young and inexperienced, thus setting them up for the fall. Same in fighting, if you have the will you have the way, but the will must be led by the experience to be put in the correct direction, and to spot all of the feints, misleads, and actual attacks. This is it. I have seen young defeat old yet I have seen old defeat young. It all depends on the individuals in question. As long as a man keeps his body healthy he needs not fear any weapon of the young, of course there will be limits to everyone. Look at the founder of Aikido, Ueshiba, he would take any one of us here were he still around. At 60, yes and with his hands, he still owned the young dogs. Its all upstairs my friend, its all upstairs.
I am referring to fighting inside a boxing ring and under boxing regulations. Of course you can start a fight with any one at any time, even if you are 85 years old, provided that you are willing to throw the first attack, whether you will win the fight is a different matter.
Fencing before 1940s did involve sharpe edged weapons and they were used in duel. Bascially you could get kill or seriously hurt.
One famous Italian olypmic fencing champion (I have forgotten his name) was challenged to a duel by a fellow Italian after he praised a French fencing champion. He won the dual by wounding his opponent seven times. You will find his name in a good fencing book.
The most famous Japanese swordman (Sword Saint) used to kill and seriously wounded his oppoents with his wooden swords. Many Japanese swordmen were seriously hurt when sparring with wooden swords, before 1900s. This was because Japanese did not like to lose. They would tried their best to beat their opponents.
People do get hurt in fencing and kendo.
The young has the advantage in any competitive event over the senior citizen, whether it is mental, physical, or skill based. From boxing to wrestling, to chess, to shooting, to fencing, to kendo, to archery. This is the reason you don’t see 60-year-old plus world champions in any of the above listed events.
The young has the advantage in any competitive event over the senior citizen, whether it is mental, physical, or skill based. From boxing to wrestling, to chess, to shooting, to fencing, to kendo, to archery. This is the reason you don’t see 60-year-old plus world champions in any of the above listed events.
LOL.. or, that is the voice of experience telling the older wiser players that sport-fighting is where the youth get the experience that the older players already have.. we’ve “been there, done that” and are pleased to be entertained by the next generation.. amused at the suave arrogance of such statements as above.. oddly, the youth keep returning to the “older” players for guidance and training.. left to their own devices, the youth would eradicate each other in a blood-bath of “inexperience”.. and “train” each other out of existence.. that’s why you don’t see a bunch of 25 year old “Masters”..
Originally posted by PangQuan . Look at the founder of Aikido, Ueshiba, he would take any one of us here were he still around. At 60, yes and with his hands, he still owned the young dogs. Its all upstairs my friend, its all upstairs.
An interesting thing is that in his old age Ueshiba had to be helped on and off the mats.
But once he was on he was invincible.
Originally posted by Hitman I know western boxers usually do not fight people in the ring after reaching 42
that doesn’t mean they aren’t training. They stop COMPETING. when you are fighting on a pro level - heck, even semi pro, you’re not gonna keep up with the young guys. that doesn’t mean you can’t hold your own, however.
Certainly those elderly practitioners do not win, because they are very fit or do conditioning exercises every day. What are their secrets?
there are no secrets in MA… just train. One of my judo coaches is 76 and he still schools younger guys. However, he could not keep up in a judo tournament…
EF: and one the top 5 chess champions is Josh Waitzken (“In Search of Bobby Fisher”) A world champion Push-hands competitor in his late 20’s maybe early 30’s.. one of W.C.C.Chen’s students.. and almost a Chen family member..
Most of the older players have learned to live in harmony with their passions.. not be controlled by them.. fine wines..
LOL.. or, that is the voice of experience telling the older wiser players that sport-fighting is where the youth get the experience that the older players already have.. we’ve “been there, done that” and are pleased to be entertained by the next generation.. amused at the suave arrogance of such statements as above.. oddly, the youth keep returning to the “older” players for guidance and training.. left to their own devices, the youth would eradicate each other in a blood-bath of “inexperience”.. and “train” each other out of existence.. that’s why you don’t see a bunch of 25 year old “Masters”..
Be well.. [/B]
you can’t overlook the obvious so easily… sticking with the ueshiba example, he would geet mauled in a competition. The judo coach I referred to is 76, but actualy competition is a much different animal - different intent, different intensity… He couldn’t compete. Why do you think they have age classes? Old guys can continue to train, but after a certain point, your experience and knowledge is all that you have. On the bright side, defending yourself against an untrained attacker, that may be all you need. When the above mentioned judo coach was 74, he chased a robber out of his home.
As for masters, you don’t really see a whole lot of old ones either…the “what constitutes a master?” discussion is a whole different topic, however.
I understand the term master to be something given or bestowed upon one by their superiors, peers, and students and for this it takes many years to reach. Especially in a physical pursuit such as Kung Fu that not only requires one to be a physical fighter and healthy, but to keep a mental edge and be well-rounded within their stability. With chess, one can become a master because they have the mind but don’t require the body. A martial artist may be a master from the mental side, they have the great intent, but they must actualize that intent and desire by manipulating and controlling the body to such a point that it represents what the mind desires.
Originally posted by TaiChiBob oddly, the youth keep returning to the “older” players for guidance and training..
Of course older people who have “been there, done that” have a wealth of experience. They can teach the youngsters many things. However, when it comes to application, youth trumps age almost every time. There is a reason you don’t see 70 year old chess, boxing, archery, bowling, boxing, wrestling, or scrabble world champions.