fighting a trained opponent...

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Street/Reality Fighting
1

I don’t know if this has been asked here or not,but has anyone fought an opponent (outside of sparring and tournaments) with training? All of my “encounters” have been against idiots and jerks who fought worse than those John Wayne movies, and most of the martial artists I know have enough courtesy, honor, and common sense not to get into stupid fights. SO has anyone here faced an opponent trained in another CMA, other MA, or even boxing or wrestling, etc? And how did it go?

Long Live the Fighters!
-Paul Mua’Dib Atreides

2

hehe try some NHB and find out for yourself.

3

If a person is willing to come up to you and challenge you, or to accept a fight, chances are, they’re trained. Experienced, rather. So it would appear that they have “Trained” in some ways. They most definitely haven’t the discipline you may have.

             [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Animenigma [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
4

Greetings,

I have a question. If someone came on me and said that he wants to challenge me. And what should I do? Challenge him or what?

thanks,

~Guybrush~

5

OH…OH… Fight for the Honour
Fight for the Splendour
Fight for the Pleasure
OH…OH… Fight for the Honour
Fight for the Splendour
Fight for your Life!

Iron Maiden, The Duellists

6

Up the Irons!!!

I love Maiden..enough said.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

7

I have competed in NHB so I have faced trained fighters. The biggest thing whne facing another traind person is getting them into the fight where you want it to happen. You wan to stand-up, keep the fight stand..you get my point. But…as I well know that is easier said than done.

8

Twinsen

For what its worth - if someone challenges me - for real - I would simply say no.

You wanna spar for fun - to hone skills - I would love to. But - a challenge - no.

You read here on this forum insults being passed and challenges being thrown out all the time. What is the best thing that can come out of accepting one of these challenges? You win? Hopefully with nothing really hurt and what did you gain? Nothing. SO you are a better fighter than the other guy. So what?

On the street - well - if you have to go 'round with someone, of course you do, but only if you have to.

I’ve had my share of fights and none of them are fun - even when you win. Its happened to me before - some guy is feeling his beer muscles and decides to call me out. All I do is say no. If he decides no isn’t good enough - fine - we scrap but typically - when you simply decide not to go outside with the guy he laughs at you and tells his buddies you are a p*ssy or whatever and he goes away

9

.

10

Ummm… First of all, there is a BIG difference between “trained” and “experienced”. Training helps, but I’ll take experienced ANY DAY. Interns for your brain surgery, anyone?

Secondly, there is a BIG difference between an NHB match and a real fight. I’ll take NHB any day; I get to fall on a mat, and there’s a referee to stop it if someone get hurt. Or pulls a weapon… Or brings in three buddies with weapons…

Jason C. Diederich

Co-Founder, Yiu Dai S’uun Ancient Martial Arts
10,316th generation Dai Soke in an unbroken line of NHB Shaolin Ninja Marine successors
<A HREF=“http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/” TARGET=“_blank”>http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/&lt;/A&gt;

11

So, you would rather an orderly that did brain surgery once (make up a reasn why an orderly would), weather the patient died or not, over a trained neurosurgeon with no experience?

I’ll give you an easier one. A professionaly trained (on a simulator) pilot, or someone who took a cesna for a joyride sans training as a teenage and survived the crash?

12

Sure

Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

13

Ummm… how does being an orderly count as experience in brain surgery?

And how does a failed joyride years ago count as “experienced”?

Jason C. Diederich

Co-Founder, Yiu Dai S’uun Ancient Martial Arts
10,316th generation Dai Soke in an unbroken line of NHB Shaolin Ninja Marine successors
<A HREF=“http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/” TARGET=“_blank”>http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/&lt;/A&gt;

14

experience is crucial, you have to fight sometimes in order to become a good fighter. this is why we spar, since its no good going out and getting into fights in the street, and sparring, when properly done is the closest you can get to a real fight.

YOU MUST SPAR ALL THE TIME ! :slight_smile: and dont only spar against people who are training the same style, or even against people who are training, just offer every now and then to anyone you know to go a couple of rounds.

-specialization is for ants-

15

A failed joyride counts as flying experience the same way an untrained person in a streetfight counts as fighting experience. You said experience was more important than training. If it were that simple, we wouldn’t have any reason to teach martial ars any more, just offer a big room to fight in.

And sparring, depending on how it’s done, can be as counter-productive as it is useful. Look at point sparring competition for an excellent example.

I do most certainly agree with exposing yourself to whatever you can. Other styles, other people in your own style, etc. It’s your reality check to see if what you are doing makes sense. And I agree that sparring is fun, and a neccessiary evil to get a feel for doing what you are learning in a chaotic environment and against a resisting opponent. It’s also good for working on that fear reflex. But depending on it too much to be the same as a real fight can be dangerous. As Yamoto points out, there is a big difference between the most realistic competition and a real fight.

How’s that saying go? In competition you win or loose, in a fight you survive or die?

16

I think that you misread me. I did not say that “experience” was more important than “training”. I said that it was more important to be “experienced” than “trained”. And having done something one time does NOT count as experienced, by anyone’s standard–especially if you failed.

Jason C. Diederich

Co-Founder, Yiu Dai S’uun Ancient Martial Arts
10,316th generation Dai Soke in an unbroken line of NHB Shaolin Ninja Marine successors
<A HREF=“http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/” TARGET=“_blank”>http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/rightway/yamato_damashii/&lt;/A&gt;

17

FIGHT OR DON’T!

You make the choice… Everything else is BS

You Have The Power>
Dave S :slight_smile:

18

Experienced vs training

Of course experience is great. If it was THAT great, why do we have schools and training centres? Just go out there and try it!

WOuld you trust a fresh graduate brain surgeon operating on you or Dr Nick Riviera who has operated hundreds of times… (with survivors like Mr Armstrong who has an arm for a leg and a lef for an arm!)

“It’s brain sugery not rocket science! Now pass me that ice cream scoop!” Monty Burns

Yes Experience is great, but like an old movie i saw…

“Experience is the horse you ride, education is the jockey.”

As for fighting trained fighters, I fought a sifu of Northern Tong Bei once. Advice for all of those who are asked to fight at a foreign school:

THEY WILL GIVE IT THERE BEST!

THey have a rep to defend where as you are a foreigner. If you are asked to fight and you accept, dont hold too much back, because they arent!

eg.

I fought this Tong Bei guy. I kicked the crud out of him, til he said now kicks. He was much faster in hand speed than I. I chased him down all the time til he imposed this new rule.

Then we battered each other for a while. I pulled some critical hits.
We eventually began tangling since we were at point blank range. We both head locked each other simultaneously. (Yes it looks riduclous, but it happened!)

We BOTH clamped down on each other. I heard a shirt rip. I realeased pressure. HE DIDNT. I got a sore neck.

Yes the guy technically beat me, after he disabled my legs. Still, he had 10 years experience up on me, healthier and faster than me. Yet I clobbered him for sometime.

I got a bruised ego, but for your own safety, dont relax or go too easy when fighting an experienced fighter.

I thought he would extend the same courteousy for me when he felt me relax. But rather he took advantage of it, as you would in a real fight. I just didnt think it was a real fight.

Whatever the case, some trained fighters arent that good. You’re techniques work, trained or untrained. It just becomes a little harder…

good luck!

The Force will be with you…always

19

I have fought trained people, most Thai Boxers, but real fights are nothing like fighting in the ring. I have always made sure to find anything to my advantage in order to win or escape from the situation.

I think training and experience go hand in hand. To have one or the other is a good thing, but to have both is even better and I think that is what we should be aiming for.

Kyoshu