# Discipleship **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [January 28, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641 "2003-01-28T00:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![eric\_thomson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@eric\_thomson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/eric_thomson)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/1 "2003-01-28T00:02:04Z")
What is discipleship? Is it some kind of ceremony or something that students get when they reach a certain level? I heard that some Kung Fu schools have tea ceremonies when their students reach black belt or start their own studio. Has anyone else heard about this? If so, could you illustrate what discipleship is and what ceremonies, if any, are involved? Sincerely, Eric ---
**Author:** ![ShaolinTiger00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@ShaolinTiger00](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ShaolinTiger00)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/2 "2003-01-28T00:11:22Z")
What is it? Poor Grammar. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joedoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@joedoe](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/joedoe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/3 "2003-01-28T00:29:25Z")
Re: Discipleship? > Originally posted by eric\_thomson > [B]What is discipleship? Is it some kind of ceremony or something that students get when they reach a certain level? I heard that some Kung Fu schools have tea ceremonies when their students reach black belt or start their own studio. Has anyone else heard about this? If so, could you illustrate what discipleship is and what ceremonies, if any, are involved? Sincerely, Eric [/B] Traditionally when a student became a disciple, the relationship between student and teacher becomes similar to one of father and child. In some schools this also implies a more spiritual relationship as well as meaning that the student may be trusted to learn the ‘secrets’ of the art. The idea of a disciple is not unique to the MA. In fact it is probably more common in a religious sense. ---
**Author:** ![eric\_thomson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@eric\_thomson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/eric_thomson)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/4 "2003-01-28T00:29:33Z")
If I wanted an English lesson I would have posted at [EnglishMagazineForums.com](http://EnglishMagazineForums.com) If your not gonna help me out stay away! ---
**Author:** ![dnc101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dnc101](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/dnc101)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/5 "2003-01-28T00:32:48Z")
A disciple is someone who studies and learns under a ‘master’. The disciple would faithfully learn the masters art, his methods, principles, possibly even his moral code and/or ideologies. Descipleship implies a deeper level of commitment than just a student or follower. To use the term any other way is incorrect (refer to ST00’s reply). ---
**Author:** ![ShaolinTiger00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@ShaolinTiger00](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ShaolinTiger00)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/6 "2003-01-28T01:38:27Z")
The disciple would faithfully learn the masters art, his methods, principles, possibly even his moral code and/or ideologies. Descipleship implies a deeper level of commitment than just a student or follower. You’ve just joined a cult. and you called me incorrect. ohhh the irony.. ---
**Author:** ![SaMantis](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/samantis/32/203_2.png) [@SaMantis](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SaMantis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/7 "2003-01-28T04:25:19Z")
What’s wrong with being in a cult? You get instant friends, you never have to worry about what to wear every morning, haircuts are a thing of the past, and everybody gets new white sneakers and all the Kool-Aid they can drink. Heck, you don’t even have to do pesky stuff like think for yourself! See ya later, I’m late for my mass wedding. 😉 p.s. - eric, I believe Gene Ching is a disciple of a Shaolin monk, as is russbo at [russbo.com](http://russbo.com). Try posting in the Shaolin Kung Fu section or visit the above site, you can get a lot of information (fact-based rather than rumor-based) that way. ---
**Author:** ![dnc101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dnc101](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/dnc101)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/8 "2003-01-28T05:36:21Z")
ShaolinTiger00 Don’t get your knickers in a twist- I was refering him back to your post because you are correct. I’m agreeing that it is poor grammar. As for the cult thing, all cults probably have disciples, but all desciples aren’t necessarily in cults. The only cult I know of that didn’t have any disciples was the one I tried to start. Every one thought I was disagreeing with them and left! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joedoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@joedoe](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/joedoe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/9 "2003-01-28T05:42:16Z")
I took up discipleship with my current sifu’s father. It wasn’t a cult - we only had to shave our heads once, and wear purple robes every 3rd Saturday of each month 😃 Seriously though, I wouldn’t have called it a cult. It was just a formalisation of the relationship between the student and the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Sho](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sho/32/184_2.png) [@Sho](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Sho)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/10 "2003-01-28T11:28:06Z")
It’s almost a synonym for apprenticeship. ---
**Author:** ![patriot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@patriot](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/patriot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/11 "2003-01-28T14:39:12Z")
cult? Jesus had a 12 disciple-cult? ---
**Author:** ![Shaolin\_brother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Shaolin\_brother](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Shaolin_brother)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/12 "2009-09-11T22:32:26Z")
Discipleship Hello This is the first time on the forum and a big hello all to all. My question is about discipleship. Why is there a disciple concept in the first place? Back in China in the 1900’s what was the structure and values of been a disciple? Today in our modern society do kung fu traditional schools still have exactly the same standards as in China in the 1900’s. For those who are or have been a disciple what is teh up side and down side of this type of relationship? Anyone have any tips and advice about this please feel free to share. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Chiang\_Po](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/958977/32.png) [@Lee\_Chiang\_Po](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lee_Chiang_Po)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/13 "2009-09-12T03:06:39Z")
Desciple was used way back then, but today they use other terms for it. Sucky and brown nose come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![bawang](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/bawang/32/3554_2.png) [@bawang](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/bawang)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/14 "2009-09-12T04:24:27Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52SCDmFx-7c&feature=PlayList&p=4019BE0532FEBBAE&playnext=1&playnext\_from=PL&index=1](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52SCDmFx-7c&feature=PlayList&p=4019BE0532FEBBAE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Jamieson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/david_jamieson/32/19_2.png) [@David\_Jamieson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/David_Jamieson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/15 "2009-09-13T21:20:24Z")
[QUOTE=Shaolin brother;958608]Hello This is the first time on the forum and a big hello all to all. My question is about discipleship. Why is there a disciple concept in the first place? Back in China in the 1900’s what was the structure and values of been a disciple? Today in our modern society do kung fu traditional schools still have exactly the same standards as in China in the 1900’s. For those who are or have been a disciple what is teh up side and down side of this type of relationship? Anyone have any tips and advice about this please feel free to share.[/QUOTE] When you learn an art, you learn from a teacher and mentor. If you are especially good and eager to learn, then it is generally a good bet that you will carry the art forward upon the demise of the current master. that distinction is recognized through and act of acceptance that is mutual, and that falls within a framework of passing the art of one to another as well as maintaining the standards for cultivation of it. that’s not something you just dole out to anybody, because you basically can’t just give an art to someone who doesn’t have the focus to gain it and redistribute it. discipleship serves in the manner that it keeps the art vital and not just tossed around in bits and pieces by uncaring and ignorant people. It is a contract. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Pina](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ray_pina/32/242_2.png) [@Ray\_Pina](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ray_Pina)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/16 "2009-09-13T22:55:16Z")
In reality, even the term “sifu” was used for students who lived with their teacher. The relationship was more personal and demanding. Discipleship was literally like being adopted. You were now family, and were subject to all the responsibilities that comes with being a family member. ---
**Author:** ![TenTigers](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tentigers/32/74_2.png) [@TenTigers](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/TenTigers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/17 "2009-09-14T01:00:04Z")
In reality, even the term “sifu” was used for students who lived with their teacher. Untrue. In reality, the term, “Sifu” is used under quite a few circumstances. And as far as only by live in students-quite often, Sifus are introduced to others by that term. The relationship was more personal and demanding. Discipleship was literally like being adopted. You were now family, and were subject to all the responsibilities that comes with being a family member [B]very true. But that should be the same whether you live in or not. If your Sifu is giving you the knowledge he has devoted his life to , then it is only right that you in turn, should honor that and respect it, and treat him as family[. It is only in this day and age of spoiled snotnosed children, that they see the Sifu as someone they have bought a service from, and have this feeling of entitlement. That is why I and my Sifu before me, tell students that they are not paying tuition, they are paying membership dues. Anything they get, they earn through sweat/B] ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Pina](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ray_pina/32/242_2.png) [@Ray\_Pina](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ray_Pina)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/18 "2009-09-14T14:41:03Z")
Its true. You have to respect your teacher whether its your sifu, coach, professor, whatever you call it for the style… but it is a completely different thing that when you’re done training you stay and cook for your teacher, eat with the family, clean up, help with chores and sleep and live there. You are family. That’s different than bowing to “sifu” upon exiting the strip mall location, hopping in mom’s mini-van and going back to a soft-a$$ life. My Chinese teacher would not let us call him sifu for precisely the reasons I stated. To him, a native Chinese practitioner of over 50 years, it wasn’t an accurate term. No one – most of the students were first generation Chinese American – called him sifu. His adopted disciple daughter called him dad. She lived with him and they appeared to be constantly together. She knows more of the system them anyone. And while a small woman I wouldn’t count on her hand-to-hands I’ve seen her best a room full of eager men with wooden swords, full contact. There’s a difference. And its important for the American to know it and recognize it. We tend to idolize and romanticize our “masters” which makes you feel obligated to be at their beckon call. Or that somehow you’re a better student for being there all the time. This is all childish. After being exposed to a very wide range of arts and systems, ranging from traditional issin-ryu to wing chun to hung gar to S Mantis to internal to BJJ to MMA… I can say, “just shut up and train.” Good trainers require good athletes and vise a versa. There should be equal respect. I know so many kung fu legends in their own mind and in reality they haven’t done di(k… for themselves as a fighter, for their students as fighters or for their system. This could be related to another running post, that martial arts aren’t just for fighting so the focus shouldn’t be there. Well, maybe music isn’t for listening either. And you can blow on your tuba like a dying walrus to relieve your stress… you’re not a musician though. You’re a fool having your kicks. ---
**Author:** ![YouKnowWho](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/youknowwho/32/583_2.png) [@YouKnowWho](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/YouKnowWho)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/19 "2009-09-14T18:48:18Z")
[QUOTE=Shaolin brother;958608]what is teh up side and down side of this type of relationship?[/QUOTE] (Down side) If your - teacher wants you to beat your best friend up, whill you do it? - student is in jail or on the run, will you bail him out or hide him in your house? (Up side) Many - teachers want to accept disciples because they wante to build up their own army (biting dogs). - students want to become disciples because they want to be “in the pack” (safe by number, also if your teacher owns the police department, you won’t have any more problem from the law for the rest of your life). Relationship comes with responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![GeneChing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/geneching/32/96_2.png) [@GeneChing](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/GeneChing)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641/20 "2010-07-07T19:33:30Z")
More on discipleship Read our latest e-zine article, [Bai Shi Ceremony - Tradition, Honor, Respect](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=907) by Brian Bruning. There’s a lot of threads on discipleship, as it is a major part of traditional kung fu. We had a hard time choosing a good one to attach this new e-zine article. For easy reference, I’m collating some of the other good threads here: [Significance of Baisi Ceremony in Hung Ga](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54200) [Shaolin Temple Discipleship](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51505) [Bai See Ceremony](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43881) [“Closed door” vs secular learning what’s the difference?](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44968) [Personal students or closed door student](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44386) [Secrecy and Discipleship in America](http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38635) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/discipleship/46641.md?page=2)