Lets take a poll… What do you all perfer striking with a closed fist or a open palm.. and why…
Also grip training… how does everyone else develop there grip training..
I have built a device that has a 4 in pole that I strike then pluck and pull.. I set up tession bands on it to force the pole to move away from me… so lets see how everyone else does it…
Victor…
p.s. sorry for all the post it was my day off…
In 8 Step we do lots of grip training in the Sifu Program. Also finger push ups. There are different excersices for grabbing to throw and more penetrating grabbing for joint locks, muscle grabbing,…etc.
To answer your question I am and always will be a big fan of the bitch slap. I loved it in high school and I love it now that I can use my waist and have Iron Palm training. Nothing says, “shut up bit(h” like a nice clean backhand
hey 8step if you dont mind me askin you how old are you lol… You sond like my brother… he about 21..
What is a shifu’s program… not nocking was jsut wondering I never heard of something like that… but if it is good cool because alot of people become shifu’s but lack the skills to teach there systems.. you can be a great fighter but a horrible shifu
Victor
Victor
[This message has been edited by mantis7 (edited 08-30-2000).]
I’ll just say that I’m the youngest Sifu of 8 Step Praying Mantis. Yes I am young 19. The Sifu Program is not an instant Sifu Mix…The drop out rate is rediculous and you get the traditional “endurances”= tortures to teach you in a very bitter/ super traditional way. Pain + Time + kung fu. Im the Sifu program you are given goals that you laugh at in hysteria when you first see them and then you have to do everything you can and more to meet them. It’s definately not for everybody, but I can honestly say that I have good kung fu, and if the program is followed, I have seen amazing results from it. The whole time I was sore, crammed with so much information that my head was spinning and always eating. In the process of this I learned 8 Step PM and Tai Chi, also iron palm body and other training. Its a sweet deal and its been good for me personally as well as my kung fu brothers and sisters. It was upwards of 5 hours a day, weekends,In the shower, around the house, Chi kung on car rides..you get the picture. Some of the painfull excersices I did gave me weird feelings of spiritual euphoria and opened my meridian. I’m not joking, maybe you have experienced this? My legs were being trained from fast twitch, to endurance and back again and my body bulged and shifted depending on what I was working on.
It’s broken up into 5 grades.
1.punching,
2. kicking
3. throwing, groundfighting
4. joint lock
5. Sets, everything before.
You start out with the parts in detail and it all connects in the end, all the parts come together to form a whole. You test nationally over more material than you can memeorize and If you pass the test judged by other Sifus accross the country, then you are a sifu.
Thats why I love to hear how “tough shaolin is” or that “Americans don’t learn traditionally” it just makes me laugh.
Whats your training like Mantis7?
An open palm strike is fastr than a closed fist. A sifu program is more commercialization. After you pay your feeees and get your certificate you can open your school. However more $ goes back to your original sifu for using the school name and C R A P .
Right on, word!
dam you guys must of had some bad experiences in CMA world… BUt hey U never heard of the program before it may be good he seems to enjoy it so keep going strong 8step… Hey it may seem like that but have you everheard of executive training program big buisness use to train the next generation… but what do I know.. 8 step if you want to continue this lets take it to private…Email
HEy MIA you are either word or his little yes man.. Every post I have been looking at you are sure in agreeance with everything he says.. glad to see you have found someone you follow and admire good luck to the both of you in this union…
Victor
I’m willing to bet money that you’ve never done an endurance or long forms. I can’t tell you what your experience with the Sifu Program was. There is a high drop out rate and I’m guessing that you fall into this category. My experience with it was a great one. I had an awesome sifu that nurtured my growth like a master gardener. I have nothing, but good things to say about it.
OK BACK TO PALMS EVERYBODY 
[This message has been edited by 8stepsifu (edited 08-30-2000).]
Like I said in my other post. ANyone who goes against everyone elses thoughts are suddenly a " troll." That’s b/s.
Maybe MIA sees the light? How much does your “sifu” program cost?
MIA sees the light? Only if Word is the light.
step 1. see above post
step 2. write something about palms
step 3. get a life.
and good luck with your “union”
Close or open palm eh?
Well, depends on where one is striking…
I prefer an open palm because it delivers damage in a wider area than a closed punch. Yet, the closed punch is a good peircing like attack. I would use a closed punch for sensitive areas like below the rib cage in the diaphram area. I would use more palm strikes against hardened bone to break it. Such as elbow breaks or to palm strike the ribs to break them…seems like it would depend on where a person was striking…
Mantis 7
Well, word let me educate you a little, have you ever attended college at all. Because for every major you decide to take there is a tuition fee that must be met. Just like the college professors have to be paid, so must the Sifu’s who are teaching you. People seem to forget that Sifu’s have dedicated themselves to studying and mastering and art to be able to pass it on. The money you pay a Sifu is not for him to get rich, but on the contrary, it is to help him pay his bill’s for the school and yes to put food on the table for him and his family.
Once, you become a Sifu if you want to open a kwoon an make it a chain, who’s name are you going to use your’s or his. Remember, your Sifu has been around a lot longer than you have and probably has a reputable reputation. Poeple will recognize his name with quality, which is going to help you get students, because they will know off the bat that you are associated with him and they are going to get their money’s worth.
I had, some Sifu’s that never charged me a dime, and you know what, I have paid my dues back by having a few students that I never charged them a dime. But someone has to help pay the bill’s, so a Sifu is force to charge for what he teaches.
There is no shame or sin in charging for lessons given. I don’t really understand by what some of you call “comercial school”. I operate a big school and it’s in a shopping center, due I charge tuition? YES, I do, do I promote you to the next level because you pay me? NO, I don’t.
Your tuition just guarantees you a place for you to train and learn in, not to move to another level. That depends on how hard you train and what you have mastered. Now, I know you have said some nasty things about me and other Sifu’s, I have five words for you: “Here is my school address”
562 Stewart Ave. Bethpage, NY 11714
I’m just 45 minutes from Manhattan in Long Island, if you want to find out how good or bad I am, just come on by, my doors have always been open to anyone who has wanted to test their skills. But, I’m going to tell you, we will engage, you’re not just going to come and watch.
Now, Mantis7 is one of my students and he can tell you how many people came by our school in the Bronx to test their skills and went home with hurt egos. By no means am I saying that I’m the baddest, but one thing for sure I do practice what I preach.
Now, either you participate in this round table as a person willing to SHARE and LEARN or PUT UP or SHUT UP!
I have been training in the martial arts for 31 years and there are other Sifu’s who have been training longer. I’m 40 years young, don’t under estimate me!
Again panel sorry for getting off the subject, but someone has to put this guy in his place and I’m willing to do it.
Ortiz Northern Shaolin Temple 7-Star Praying Mantis Chinese Boxing Academy
Greeting all
Well Shifu I couldnt have put it any better myself…But even though you told him he could come down he wont answer to that.. BUt hey a troll is a troll… Hey I hope you take SHifu up on his offer I would love to be there and see your Mantis vs his…
My money is on Shifu Ortiz
Victor
yes I also agree with dragle it all depends on what area you are striking at.I as a teacher of my own style Kwon Chi’Do’ am vary particular,on were and when to use an open or a closed fist.Although if you train in the iron palm tech.you should know these.email me at brenson@mwt.net
sifu program
not to take anyones side, but the sifu program is commercialization! a way of making you pay more money (because you say your going to open your own school) you feel different than other students who just want to train! I know this becuase I was part of the 3 man group who decided to make a “new” curriculum! and call it the “sifu program” if you dont believe me i could send you the notes from 1994 when i was the secratary for the A.C.M.A.F so please dont argue something you dont know!not to pass judgement or say anthing bad about anyone but money is the motovation for the one’s who say they (love you!) you know who im talking about
Palm/Fist
I tend to use a palm if I can, it works well after you have wrenched an opponent towards you using a single or double intercept. I also use closed fist too but I naturally tend towards open palm or finger strikes.
Of course dont take my word for it, feel free to try different techniques and get good feed back from sparring partners!
All the best
Al
Palm or fist depends on application, situation, and abilities.
Yes, palm is faster. Palm can transition more quickly to grab, mantis hook, or other palms when making combination attacks or setups.
Palm can get to some targets more easily than fist.
Palm can also block opponent’s vision to hide or setup followup techniques.
-N-
fist to palm
In Mantis as in other style fo northern gung fu there is a process of evolution.
First you learn strikes with straight fist and grabs.
Then you learn different type of fist strikes.
Then you learn aligns of fist strikes in different stances.
After a while few palms are introduced as in the plum blosson forms, mixed in with the palm strikes.
The focus then changes to more cutting aligned palm strikes, chin na, and breath control. I stress breath control, because by this time one should know some sort of chi gung form. These methods can be seen in the eagle palm and dragon palm related forms.
Nathan Chukueke
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