# Claims about MMA **URL:** \ **Category:** Mixed Martial Arts\ **Created:** [July 2, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368 "2007-07-02T16:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/1 "2007-07-02T16:50:43Z")
I’ve recently been told by several people on this board the following… A) MMA (ie Judo, BJJ and Muy Thai) has all the important techniques techniques/strategies/skills of TCMA they are just called something else. B) If MMA doesn’t have technique Y of CMA style X it is because it is not important, because if it was MMA would already have it (see A). To the first charge I’d say that there is probably some overlap, with some styles more than others. However, every style of CMA has unique things about it. When presented with a problem (ie how to defend oneself or fight) the human mind is incredible at coming up with all kinds of different solutions to that problem. To my knowledge there are over 300 styles of Kung Fu that have been documented in China so I find it kind of silly to say that in all cases “MMA already has it.” To the second charge, I’d say that that this reveals a kind of insular hubris of the MMA crowd. The MMA training methodology is geared toward solving a certain problem. The problem of how to win MMA competitions. There is a whole world of martial arts out there, designed to counter different sets of problems, maybe one or more of those solutions would work as well or BETTER than the current arsenal of MMA “accepted” solutions. FP ---
**Author:** ![MasterKiller](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/masterkiller/32/407_2.png) [@MasterKiller](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MasterKiller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/2 "2007-07-02T16:52:41Z")
MMA has no kwan-dao defense. You win. ---
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/3 "2007-07-02T16:53:31Z")
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;775053]MMA has no kwan-dao defense. You win.[/QUOTE] Nice try. I’m talking about hand to hand combat w/o weapons. ---
**Author:** ![WinterPalm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a3d4f5/32.png) [@WinterPalm](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/WinterPalm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/4 "2007-07-02T17:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;775053]MMA has no kwan-dao defense. You win.[/QUOTE] Actually it does…duh! If you looked at the tablets Knifefighter brought down the mountain from Helio then you would know… ---
**Author:** ![gwa\_sow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/gwa_sow/32/556_2.png) [@gwa\_sow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/gwa_sow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/5 "2007-07-02T17:03:32Z")
this argument is irrevalent. everyone knows kung fu is to deadly for the cage. ---
**Author:** ![sihing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sihing/32/521_2.png) [@sihing](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sihing)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/6 "2007-07-02T17:10:02Z")
[QUOTE=WinterPalm;775057]Actually it does…duh! If you looked at the tablets Knifefighter brought down the mountain from Helio then you would know…[/QUOTE] LOL…:)… ---
**Author:** ![MasterKiller](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/masterkiller/32/407_2.png) [@MasterKiller](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MasterKiller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/7 "2007-07-02T17:15:05Z")
[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775052] A) MMA (ie Judo, BJJ and Muy Thai) has all the important techniques techniques/strategies/skills of TCMA they are just called something else. B) If MMA doesn’t have technique Y of CMA style X it is because it is not important, because if it was MMA would already have it (see A). [/QUOTE] The problem here is there is no “MMA” style. MMA is a combination of sport styles such as Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, Greco-Roman, Freestyle wrestling, etc… The hubris of CMA assuming that they have “something special” that is not found within the context of one or more other styles is the real issue. Your claim that only Taiji uses shoulder and hip strikes, for example, is made purely out of ignorance of other grappling/wrestling styles. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Gash](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ben_gash/32/34_2.png) [@Ben\_Gash](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ben_Gash)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/8 "2007-07-02T17:19:47Z")
He said what??? His old style Choy Li Fut is loaded with them :rolleyes: Baji is famous for them as is Xingyi Catch wrestlers have always used them. Capoeira has them Taekkyon has them I’m sure Jujitsu has them. Pointless technocentricity is what’s wrong with the TCMA scene ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TenTigers](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tentigers/32/74_2.png) [@TenTigers](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/TenTigers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/9 "2007-07-02T17:23:58Z")
hubris-isn’t that the middle-eastern dip made from chickpeas? ---
**Author:** ![TenTigers](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tentigers/32/74_2.png) [@TenTigers](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/TenTigers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/10 "2007-07-02T17:26:56Z")
I would guess that MMA, having a large Brazillian influence, would have more garlic, parsley, and olive oil, in their hubris, while CMA hubris would probably use chinese parsley (cilantro) and possibly depending on region, hot red peppers. . ---
**Author:** ![gwa\_sow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/gwa_sow/32/556_2.png) [@gwa\_sow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/gwa_sow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/11 "2007-07-02T17:28:13Z")
actually, many latin american countries use cilantro as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/12 "2007-07-02T17:31:19Z")
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;775062]The problem here is there is no “MMA” style. [/quote] Totally and categorically disagree. MMA is a style composed of other styles, developed to solve a certain obstacle (ie MMA competition.) > MMA is a combination of sport styles such as Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, Greco-Roman, Freestyle wrestling, etc… You got it all right…except for the “etc.” > The hubris of CMA assuming that they have “something special” that is not found within the context of one or more other styles is the real issue. Most traditional styles have similarities, but its not always WHAT they have, its HOW they execute those same techniques. Shuai Na Ti Da is in pretty much all TMA but executed differently with different emphasis. AND different styles have different specialties AND sometimes certain techniques/strategies/training methodologies ARE unique to a certain style. > Your claim that only Taiji uses shoulder and hip strikes, for example, is made purely out of ignorance of other grappling/wrestling styles. Except I never wrote that. Read what I wrote again. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Gash](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ben_gash/32/34_2.png) [@Ben\_Gash](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ben_Gash)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/13 "2007-07-02T17:32:17Z")
Technically only latin countries use Cilantro, in Europe and Asia we use Coriander, a virtually identical yet geneticalyy different herb. ---
**Author:** ![gwa\_sow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/gwa_sow/32/556_2.png) [@gwa\_sow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/gwa_sow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/14 "2007-07-02T17:37:20Z")
hmmm very interesting, never heard of it before.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/15 "2007-07-02T17:37:46Z")
[QUOTE=Ben Gash;775064]He said what??? His old style Choy Li Fut is loaded with them :rolleyes:[/quote] With shoulder strikes? Bull$hit. > Baji is famous for them as is Xingyi Yes, also have shoulder strikes as one of their specialty. > Catch wrestlers have always used them. Capoeira has them Taekkyon has them I’m sure Jujitsu has them. I’m sure if you looked hard enough in any style you could come up with a shoulder strike here or there. ---
**Author:** ![MasterKiller](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/masterkiller/32/407_2.png) [@MasterKiller](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MasterKiller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/16 "2007-07-02T17:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775071]You got it all right…except for the “etc.”[/quote] I left out BJJ, Sambo, San Shou, etc… ---
**Author:** ![MysticNinjaJay](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/mysticninjajay/32/794_2.png) [@MysticNinjaJay](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MysticNinjaJay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/17 "2007-07-02T17:49:33Z")
[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775071]Totally and categorically disagree. MMA is a style composed of other styles, developed to solve a certain obstacle (ie MMA competition.) [/QUOTE] MMA is a combat sport that allows many styles of martial arts (hence “Mixed Martial Arts”). To this day many ORGs list the disciplines of fighters and they go by different terms from “Kickboxer” (e.g. Chuck Liddell) to “Mixed Martial Artist” (e.g. Quinton Jackson) to “Submission Fighter” (e.g. Frank Shamrock) to even ‘hybrid’ style like San Shou + Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (e.g. Cung Le). BJJ, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Western Boxing and Submission/Catch Wrestling are some of the most popular arts taught in MMA gyms. But I’d say MasterKiller is right, MMA itself is not actually a “style”. ---
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/18 "2007-07-02T17:49:59Z")
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;775077]I left out BJJ, Sambo, San Shou, etc…[/QUOTE] Why isn’t any Chinese martial art on that list? Despite your attempt to side step it, that’s my point now isn’t it. BTW, don’t try to tell me that San Shou is a Chinese Martial Art…its a format. ---
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/19 "2007-07-02T17:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=MysticNinjaJay;775081] But I’d say MasterKiller is right, MMA itself is not actually a “style”.[/QUOTE] I reject his argument because it sidesteps the point. We can keep adding styles to that list till we’re blue in the face. However, notice that none of them are Chinese. That whole knowledge base has been dismissed as “the same” or with “nothing new to offer” or hong kong phooey. My point of bringing this up is that there are UNIQUE things from TCMA that can add to the knowledge base of MMA despite the claims of some on this board. I reject the equivalence argument and the not important argument. ---
**Author:** ![MasterKiller](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/masterkiller/32/407_2.png) [@MasterKiller](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MasterKiller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368/20 "2007-07-02T18:03:21Z")
[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;775082]Why isn’t any Chinese martial art on that list? Despite your attempt to side step it, that’s my point now isn’t it. BTW, don’t try to tell me that San Shou is a Chinese Martial Art…its a format.[/QUOTE] A) Chinese arts aren’t typically “Combat Sports.” B) If San Shou is a format, then so is MMA. [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/claims-about-mma/40368.md?page=2)