Since I have been training Choy Lay Fut it seems to me that it is the most effective style for fighting multiple attackers and has come in handy. Since this has similar techniques to shaolin longfist I am assuminbg they are equally effective.
Just wanted to get some unbiased opinions on which style is best suited for multiple attackers and why?
Shaolin36
Silat…the style constantly keeps multiple attackers in mind. Not that I’m bashing Choy Lay Fut, but Silat works for me.
They’re all good 
cxxx:::::::::::>
You’re fu(king up my chi
Choy Li fut definitely is an expansive and deep system of chinese martial arts.
It combines the north and the south and does so effectively. It is a style you could spend the rest of your life learning and doing and it does provide a heck of a lot of information in its variety of sets and methods.
I am not a choy Li Fut stylist myself, just a Kung Fu guy who knows a good thing when he sees it.
As far as multiple attackers goes, most, if not all systems of Chinese martial arts have their sets designed with multiple attackers in mind.
Especially any style that is Shaolin in origin, which of Course CLF is.
peace
Kung Lek
I like JKD for mass atack stuff. Check out Paul V’s videos for some multiple attacker info.
I always thought that Baguazhang was supposed to be the ultimate Chinese “multiple attacker” art? It definately seems like that is it’s primary focus to me.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
JWT, Yeah, that’s what I’ve always heard, and from the limited exposure I’ve had to the art, it does seem that way. But you know what the funny thing is? Many of us look to the stand up arts a good way to survive a multiple attacker scenario, but I only see the JKD guys actually using good sensible multiple attacker drills.
I mean I’m sure a lot of schools do the classic sparring against more than one guy, but JKD seems to have much more live drills that emphasise surviving/escaping multiple attacker drills, including key aspects like positioning, threat assessment, and other stuff like that. I know there are a few traditional schools like this, but in many JKD schools, it seems to be a part of the cirriculum (sp?).
Jaguar Wong
best style for multiple attackers…
The ancient art of Run fu. And if that doesn’t work, the “Take My Dough” technique is very good when faced with several armed robbers :rolleyes:
Kali/Escrima/Arnis
I’d put an Escrimador with a collapsable baton against any 2 - 3 empty handed fighters.
I’d have to agree archangel
But I’d also feel the same about an acomplished Kung Fu guy with a broadsword, though. It’s different when people have to face a weapon without any real exposure as to how to deal with that weapon.
How would the odds look of the same 2-3 empty handed guys also had the same amount of training in the same FMA as the guy with the baton? True, they’re unarmed, but they understand how the weapon is used, as well as any possible disarms to look for, should the situation open itself. That’s something to ponder 
Jaguar Wong
Overkill?
Kwan-do’s always worked as a deterrent for me. No, realistically - any kung fu style should be effective against multiple styles. An art has to flexible enough to be used whatever the situation. In the end though, the crucial factor in any combat situation is the combatant himself.
“Cry shamefully and let loose the turnips of war!”
I understand what you are all getting at, however Choy Lay Fut was created and is geared towards multiple attackers.
Here’s a quote that I read straight from Sydney, Aus.
“Choy Lay Fut is an art that was developed for fighting your way out of an ambush”
Do all styles imply this or am I missing something?
Shaolin36
Ok, then what are the halmarks of a style meant for fighting off multiple opponents?
I would suggest Baguazhang becuase of all of the evasive footwork. Allot of Bagua seems to be focused on getting to different places around your opponent. That, to me, sounds ideal for a multiple attacker scenario as it not only provides avenues for escape but gives you allot of practice putting one opponent in front of another.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
Keep moving. A style designed for multiple assailants should develop techniques, including striking and takedowns, which do not require you to plant your feet. You should always, always keep moving; even if you’re not moving for any particular reason, move anyway. This should be totally ingrained in your techniques. You should be stepping when you strike, stepping when you control, stepping when you throw. For example, you can do an outside headlock hip throw by taking one step behind them to displace their hips, then planting and sinking to throw; or you can take another step after that first and use the momentum of that to throw. “Keeping moving” also invalidates most, but not all, ways of kicking.
Taking the outside door. The outside door is when you are “outside” of your opponents two arms, for example if I am squared-off and an opponent throws a his-right/my-left jab, if I step in and to the my-left/his-right, I will be on the outside door. There are pros and cons to both the inside and the outside, but the outside is superior for multiple opponent situations because it creates far less opportunity to get tangled up with the attacker, and far GREATER opportunity to “step through” the attacker to escape or face someone else, or simply keep moving.
Avoid grabbing. Opponent control is everything, but it can be done without grabbing. Grabbing comes with several risks: it makes you as slow as the person you’ve grabbed, it gives them access to your center (there’s really no difference between grabbing someone and being grabbed - either way, you’re connected), and it is a “high intent” “pass/fail” action… When you grab you are “trying” to do something which can either succeed or fail; if you fail, you run the risk of your “intent” being scrambled (ie. your body gets momentarily confused). High skill can overcome these effects, so grabbing could be considered an advanced technique. However, many of the same effects that grabbing can generate can also come from less risky (in terms of multiple assailants) techniques such as bumping, rubbing, patting, sticking, slapping, leading, etc.
“Idiot-proof” techniques. By idiot-proof, I mean a technique that is going to be useful no matter how much you screw it up. For this reason, I tend to avoid things like attacks to the eye and groin for multiple attackers, because if they don’t go as planned, they don’t do much. Against multiple opponents, you have to be sure everything you do is going to at least give your opponent a momentary stun/knockback so you can keep moving.
Flowing techniques. Combinations are great, but the vast majority of combinations people train keep them more or less in one place. There are some combinations that keep you moving. In particular, “stepping through” combinations that bring you beside and past your opponent as you strike him are excellent; as are “turning” combinations which have you turning to face another direction and stepping away as you strike him.
Defense and attack at all angles. The vast majority of martial training assumes you and your assailant are more-or-less facing one another. What if you are attacked from behind or the side? Outside of the ring, and especially against multiple assailants, this is going to happen. Better have trained for it!
And of course, being able to knock someone down really, really fast is important. But I’m sure every style claims to be teaching that!
Some I’m assuming you think that Baguazhang has all of those things. And from what I’ve seen, I would agree.
Does CLF have use the above points as priorities as well?
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
Baguazhang
With Bagua, the main idea is to engage each attacker only once, neutralizing him/her/it immediately so that you do not have to deal with the aforementioned attacker again. It is circualar in it’s approach yet very unpredictable.
It’s focus is to deal with multiple attackers and dispose of each attacker as quickly (violently) as possible. Of course that is only a vague outline of baguazhang.
Victory goes to he who makes the next-to-last mistake.
Yes Choy Lay Fut has all those but #3 isnt stressed that much.
I think the main strength for CLF is that every technique that is used has a wide open door for all other techs at any angle and direction. Even the forms are based on multiple attackers.
Just want to clarify that I am not bashing any other styles I am sure they are all just as efficient, its just that I keep reading that CLF was developed for multiple attackers and I havent really read that about other styles. But then again I dont study many other styles so maybe Im not looking hard enough.
Shaolin36
I think any martial art CAN have all those aspects. Bagua is the best suited to them from the arts I have experienced, and traditionally has stressed them the most. Although there is certainly bagua out there that doesn’t address these points.
From my experience, CLF doesn’t have any remarkable focus along these lines. Although that does not mean they are beyond the technical grasp of the style.
I have been told Silat, American Kenpo, and Aikido are also obsessive about multiple attackers. I haven’t seen enough Silat or AK to judge. Aikido looks like it has some useful knowledge, but in my experience has mostly lost the economical movement exhibited by it’s first and second-generation practitioners, which I think is required for solid multiple assailant skills.
Well there is certainly a strong emphasis in baguazhang of “disposing” of attackers in short order, I believe this to be secondary to the things I mentioned in my last post - and not a particularly valid point for discussions of comparison, since I am unaware of any style that claims to teach it’s practitioners to dispose of attackers slowly.
I would have to say my Sig Sauer P220 .45 calibur pistol would be my best defense against multiple opponents. Seriously, you don’t want to stick around too long if multiple people are trying to beat you down. Realistically speaking, even the best fighters may be beaten down when the odds are stacked against him, as in such a situation.
#5) is a good one. Flowing techniques that take you through and/or around your immediate opponent.
I can’t speak for CLF as a whole, but in Bak Hsing CLF, we train for multiple opponents. Grabbing is a tactic we use and is often a ‘hidden’ part in many of our patterns.
We teach to hit the big guy first. Take him down quickly with a lot of mess..demoralise the ‘group factor’. Of course, on our way to the big and ugly we might go through someone else. Dymanics can not be reproduced but they can be trained.
I teach a 3 second rule. If your opponent is not incompacitated in 3 seconds then train harder and smarter.
nospam.