is it a chan family choy lee fut set, or a hung ga set?
can somebody answer?
Choy Lee Fut
Definitely Hungga
It is my all-time favorite form. I sent you an email about a week ago but somehow you never responded. You can find my email address in my profile and email me whenever if you still want to.
Take care.
ST
Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs…
I don’t know much about Hung Gar, but at least there is the Chan family in Choy Lee Fut - starting with Chan Heung.
Lol, good start!
We’re getting somewhere…
gung gee fuk fu
this is definetly a hung ga set and not a choy lee fut set. it was passed on to a choy lee fut master who taught it to his students.
much of choy lee fut today has adopted other sets from other styles, and since choy lee fut and hung ga are virtually very similar, choy lee fut has adopted this set.
i can tell you for sure that this set was not passed on thru chan heung or chan koon pak.
frank 
silent thunder
hey man,
i have not forgotten you. i will email you soon.
and hey, thanks for keeping me on the right track.
i knew that i was getting a little hot headed.
i appreciate it 
“it was passed on to a choy lee fut master who taught it to his students” – it would make a lot of sense. The Goun Gee Fook Fu is a very well-rounded form. You get most “core” hg techniques, it develops breathing techniques, strong kiu sao’s, stepping, angles, etc. The benefits are too many to enumerate. Let’s just say that it is one of those few kf forms that a person can perfect all his life and never, never get bored.
It is what I call: a true chinese treasure…
ST
Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs…
gung gee fuk fu
this past saturday i was hanging out with sifu chiu chi ling and i asked him if gung gee fuk fu was either hung ga or choy lee fut. he couldn’t stop laughing because it is a hung ga set. he even went further and said that his father taught that set to either chan hong heung, chan kin man’s father or to chan kin man. and that is how the choy lee fut chan clan had adopted this set into their system.
i also mentioned to him that the chan’s also teach 18 lohan palms, and he said to me that that is a buk siu lum form, not a choy lee fut form. it has been passed down within the chan family, but it is still a northern shaolin form?
hmmm, i thought choy lee fut was mainly a southern system?
help, i’m lost.
i wonder why jeong yim aka jeong hung sing’s students don’t practice these forms?
anyone got the answer?
fran :confused 
I’m jealous…
“this past saturday i was hanging out with sifu chiu chi ling” – you say that so casually, I hate you!!! Lol.
“he couldn’t stop laughing because it is a hung ga set” – Of course! Like a first born son, goun gee fook fu is our pride and joy!!!
Seriously though, I think the confusion comes from the difference between a given style’s set of forms vs a given school’s set of forms. For example, my hg teacher taught me both goun gee fook fu AND shaolin #6. His sifu was a hunggar master and he taught hunggar to his students. But he also taught other forms (like northern shaolin and some various animal forms, maybe lau gar but I’m not sure). He always made sure though to tell students:“This is a hunggar form” and “This is not a hunggar form but another style”. True masters seldom only learn one style but will most likely know a variety of forms from many styles on top of knowing all of their style’s forms curriculum. The danger lies in not making the distinction clear when teaching these different sets and not teaching the history (if known) behind each form. Students will automatically assume that all forms they learn are from the same style and further spread confusion.
ST
Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs…
jealous what???
silent thunder, sifu chiu chi ling loves me man! he has joined our group before for chinese new year, everytime he sees me he is always hugging on me. he is a very animated man, especially when it comes to his drumming. he is always laughing. he is hella cool! he told me much about the drama between the lam sai wing and lum jo factions of hung ga. he also claims that the picture of the real wong fei hong is the real thing.
anyways, you are right, true masters stick to only one style, but as my sifu has done, he learned gung gee fuk fu, and a few other hung ga sets. he also learned some fut ga as well, but my sifu admitted to me learning these sets only brought him back to hung sing choy lee fut with a stronger desire. he has praised the gung gee fuk fu as a number one set to learn.
in the past i have learned karate,judo,tai mantis, and some boxing, had much street fights, but when i learned hung sing choy lee fut, i have stayed with it for the last 20 + years. i knew this was the style for me when i saw it for the first time.
my sifu used to teach other choy lee fut sets like siu sup ji, siu mui fah, but had given them back since they are not of professor lau bun’s branch.
he also taught me siu sup ji, and smal plum blossom, but i have also given those back.
i am still waiting for an answer on the 18 lohan palms. though. i am very interested in what they will have to say.
hopefully i will learn something.
st, i emaile you.
fran
silent thunder
if you wany sifu chiu chi ling’s number just let me know, i can give it to you.
frank
Gung Gee and 18 Lohan
It is my understanding that the Gung Gee Fuk Fu and Iron Wire sets practiced by the Chan Family are indeed Hung Ga sets. It should be of no surprise being that Chan Heung studied Hung Ga and that Choy Lee Fut is an amalgam of all that he learned.
Regarding the 18 Lohan, it is the first of the 4 Lohan Qigung sets and is nothing like Northern Shaolin. It consists of large and small postures training the expansion and contraction of the energy. It builds a foundation for the three sets that follow just as Ng Lun Ma builds a foundation for sets at the primary level and Sei Moon Kiu, Jau Sang Ma builds a foundation for more advanced sets. Siu Lohan is the second set and builds on the concepts taught in 18 Lohan. Da Lohan follows with Wu Chi being the final set in the Lohan series.
Frank, its obvious that you are curious about and very interested in what the Chan Family practices. Why not set up a dialog with them and put an end to speculation? As long as its done in the spirit of friendship and advancing everyone’s knowledge of CLF, I’m sure they’ll be accommodating.
T. Cunningham
some buk sing also play gung gee, though i am not sure if all do.
there are many players of choi li fut that learnt hung kuen, tam sam learnt hung kuen before playing hung sing.
as tam sam and wong fei hung where two of the five tigers of the south, and both knew each other, it would not be beyond imagination that they would have discussed variations.
this is with many elders of the time, especially with the sup fu.
t. cunningham
the gung gee fuk fu wasn’t taught to chan heung. it was taught to chan kin man’s father chan hong heung by sifu chiu chi ling’s father.
sifu chiu chi ling has nothing to gain by making this comment. he and his parents are very famous hung ga masters.
in my opinion, it is fine to include whatever you want into your direct family of martial arts, but i personally feel that if another family does not have this set in their corriculum, then the chan family should not make any comments to what another family of choy lee fut teaches. the true essence of choy lee fut is in the basics such as kwa,sou,chop,biu,jong,kum,na,etc. etc. it is not the set that matters. if i only learned one set-lets say sup ji kou da, and i practiced that set for the next 20 years, then i should be unstoppable.
in this instance, i personally have another gripe about the chan family. very recently, a chan family sifu had the nerve to tell one of my classmates that he can correct his gung fu. this sifu will remain nameless for now, but he has to have some big ass nuts to ever think because he is a chan family member that he can correct the gung fu of hung sing choy lee fut practitioners. i mean if you do not have our sets, then how the hell can you correct someone?
i guess the fued will never end. not once has a hung sing person ever tried to make such comments like the cocky sifu did. yes i am heated!!!
fran :mad:
hung kuen/hung ga
it is understandable that many past masters most likely learned hung ga. they are a very old style.
i admit, even professor lau bun was originally learning hung ga before losing to a friendly test of skills with a friend who was learning hung sing choy lee fut under master yuen hai-direct student of jeong hung sing.
even master chan ngau sing originally learned hung ga before coming over to hung sing clf under jeong yim. but the hung sing family does not practice any hung ga sets though. even if there were some hung ga influence such as in power, having a more solid stance,etc.
as i have stated professor lau bun was learning hung ga but he had never passed on any of his hung ga to any of his students, i believe they were strictly favorable of hung sing clf. jeong hung sing was constantly being challenged, and his gung fu was proven to be effective.
hey, i am not going to complain that the chan family teaches a hung ga set in the choy lee fut system, just don’t claim that its a choy lee fut set as some have already done.
fran
I haven’t learned the form yet, but I’ve understood that the gung gee fuk fu form we teach in Chan family CLF isn’t really a hung gar set. Yes, it’s heavily influenced by hung gar, because it was originally a hung gar set, but when it was taught to the family, it was CLFized. So.. in other words, they’re not teaching hung gar movements to us. It’s CLF techniques with the principles and the idea same as in hung gar gung gee fuk fu form. Am I making any sense to you?
OK. So, it’s propably not an “original” CLF form, but that doesn’t really matter as long as it’s good for us, the style evolves and stays true to the core principles. Evolution is a good thing and actually required to some extent, as long as you’re not compromising the traditions.
T.Cunningham
I don’t think we teach Iron wire in Chan family CLF. You’re propably confusing it for the Iron arrow longfist form(Tid jin cheong). But thanks for clearing up that Luohan 18 palms thing for yik-wah-tik.
Yak-wah-tik
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> in my opinion, it is fine to include whatever you want into your direct family of martial arts, but i personally feel that if another family does not have this set in their corriculum, then the chan family should not make any comments to what another family of choy lee fut teaches. [/quote]
Still not making any comments of what your school is teaching. Still you’re doing the same thing yourself.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> the true essence of choy lee fut is in the basics such as kwa,sou,chop,biu,jong,kum,na,etc. etc. it is not the set that matters. [/quote]
Exactly. So what’s the problem?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> in this instance, i personally have another gripe about the chan family. very recently, a chan family sifu had the nerve to tell one of my classmates that he can correct his gung fu. this sifu will remain nameless for now, but he has to have some big ass nuts to ever think because he is a chan family member that he can correct the gung fu of hung sing choy lee fut practitioners. i mean if you do not have our sets, then how the hell can you correct someone?
[/quote]
I understand what you’re saying and I agree he shouldn’t have done that, if he came to your school to watch your class. But if it was an open seminar arranged by Chan Yong Fa in San Diego this year (as I suspect it was) or any open CLF seminar, it’s understandable. They don’t know who they’re teaching, they just try to teach people some CLF. Especially if the sifu came from abroad, there’s no way in hell he could have known who was who. Anyway. If the sifu wasn’t ordered to teach there by the head instructor in that seminar, I admit, it was a stupid thing to do.
My reply stops here, but there’s one more thing I’d like to say. You’re heated.. I understand. You have every right to be angry, when people don’t treat you right or belittle you or your knowledge. You always tell us how the chan family practisioners does all these things and how bad it makes you feel, but hey.. How is it supposed to make me feel as a proud representative of my branch (just like you), when my whole branch, all the practisioners and teachers are labeled as insolent and domineering megalomaniacs? It doesn’t make things any better to know that we’re not like that and the opinion is based on some stupid things that few hothead beginners or stupid practisioners have said.
Do you know how rasism starts? People are judged based on actions or thoughts of few individuals. The normal people would realize that it doesn’t reflects the thoughts of the whole group and ignore the stupid individuals.
I really hope you understand what I’m saying here. If you don’t I don’t know what to do anymore. I don’t feel like fighting with you for this kind of things. I’d like to learn instead.
Chan hon Hung
yik-wah-tik earlier on you said Chiu Chi Ling’s he father taught the Gung Ji Fook Fu Sirn set to either Chan Hon Heung, Chan Kin Man’s father or to Chan Kin Man. Chan Hon Hung was a Hung Gar practitioner until he became a student of Fong Yuk Shu and learned Gung Ji Fook Fu Sirn from his first teacher in his home village long before he learned Choy Lee Fut and why would Chan Kin Man want to learn the form from someone else when he had access to the from his father.
Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.
Gung Gee Fook Foo belongs to the Hung Gar system having stemmed from The Tiger system of the Siu Lam Temple.
It is the original and first form of Hung Ga being that this is the set that the monk Gee Sim taught to Hung Hei Gwun at the beginning of the style.
“Taming the Tiger” as it is known in english is Shaolin at its root and Hung Gar in it’s propogation and preservation.
Here is an animation I built of the set from a poster made by buck Sam Kong.
peace
Kung Lek
alecM
those were the exact words from sifu chiu chi ling himself. not second hand knowledge. if you have never met chan heung hong, you may not exactly know of what i am speaking. chiu chi ling’s exact words were “my father taught that to chan kin man’s father” but his english isn’t all that good, i may have mistaken it for chan kin man himself.
chiu chi ling is a world famous hung ga master, are you going to dispute him? are you either his senior, or at his level? he has nothing to gain from this statement, but if you have any questions you should email him and get the answer yourself, instead of trying to dispute me.
and have you cleared up that website incident yet? since you have not emailed me when i asked, i will put our business on this forum.
you have accused me of giving eduann your website information, man, it is public domain. doc fai wong’s students took our information on professor lau bun and word for word, font fo font stole our story except for inserting doc fai wong’s name as the next successor to hung sing…that’s a load of crock! but from my mouth to your ears, i gave nothing to eduann, and originally his website stated he got his information on hung sing was from my website. so alecm, you have no right to be upset with me without ever contacting me to get the answers!
fran 