chakras and evolution

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Qigong and Meditation
1

I was wondering about the formation of “mystical spiritual energy structures”, or whatever, that we are supposed to be able to unlock, or whatever. I was wondering how and why these structure would come into existence in evolutionary terms.

Like, did ancient protozoans practice Kundalini, or did cavemen astral travel? Why would a fish with legs need or want to know the ultimate nature of reality? What’s the point, and who wrote the rules? And how would they work?

Is there a real physical structure? And if it DID differentiate along evolutionary lines, how are we any different from our “lower” less environmentally niche-challenged and less specialized/morphed relatives? At what point does humanity begin?

2

Excellent Questions! Most of which I cannot give a good answer for, but I will also be awaiting an answer from a guru on the subjects!

  • Nexus
3

cowboy, When I meditate until I know, I will tell you. But why don’t you race me, sit down, and watch your breath. When you find out, you can tell me :slight_smile:

Nexus {Flame Suit On} is there sarcasm ?

4

kungfu cowboy,

Any information given on the evolutionary development of chakras would be mere speculation and subject to various interpretations.

We could surmise that since something exists there must be a reason/reasons for it. Most of the reading I have done on the subject relate to how these structures participate in the emergence of matter from the ethereal realms; all fascinating information, but ultimately un-provable.

Generally, I will look for common threads in my readings of different opinions on these types of questions and use these common threads as a basis for personal investigation. My reasoning being that common experiences or definitions are more likely to represent truth.

It is important to remember that differing opinions can both be correct. This is because each individual interprets subjective experiences according to their own unique personality, based commonly upon the amount of learning, personal inclination, interests, intellectual capacity, talents, world view and verbal or literary skills. We can only describe what we experience and since each of us generally experience an identical event differently, our descriptions of the events will vary greatly.

It is the same with subjective experiences and information. Subjective information is highly variable based upon the individual’s ability to understand the information they are receiving, their unique personality and their ability to communicate what they experienced.

I quit investigating such phenomena years ago once I realized it is not pertinent to enlightenment.

Sincerely,

Scott

5

Nexus: I am a lil slow with humor, that sort of stuff, pardon me.

cowboy: I think I begun to understand your question later after thinking about it.

It is pretty clear that Scott and myself are coming from entirely different teachings, but I think we have one thing in common, believe what you find in the experienced level, not what you hear.

As for your question on fishes with legs, I would be pretending I would know why a fish on legs would want to practise Kundalini Yoga. So I think I let “Fish of Fury” himself answer that question.
But a fish is a sentient being, and suffers from the consequence of life and death just like us humans. So how did humans come about in the theory of revolution ? you ask, let me tell you the truth, I have not come to realise this much.

In Buddhism, we are different from the lower realms of the animal kingdom because we have are naturally free from the drive and instinct to hurt, kill and dominate other animals.

We are given the intelligence to understand suffering and experience wisdom. In this way, we HAVE a choice to, for example, consume meat (I am not telling you you have to abstain from eating meat, that is up to you). That is the difference between humans and the animals in terms of Buddhism.

We are same, in that we are all beings who are in search for happiness, in this cycle of life. Yet the only truth is that the outer body and the body of chakras (vessels) must be destroyed once our karma as a human being has been deprived.

About why one would want to unlock the “Kundalini” from the chakras. Well, it is explained elsewhere, but briefly, we are constantly in the cycle of life and death. And this means suffering. These sufferings are caused by our karmic ties, which determine which energy centers become the “tying knot” so to speak.

The yoga of mind enlightenment is simply to free one from the cycle of birth and death, which as Scott has already pointed elsewhere “is not really dead”, is only at the body and vessel level, not in the ultimate level, and as the yogis and yoginis put it, at the Kundalini level.

6

Hi prana, I don’t think I made myself clear. What I meant from my fish with legs thing is better restated. What I was wondering is, since we come from an evolutionary background, at what point in our genesis from simple single-celled creatures through fish to land to primate, did we develop the chakras, or any other mystical/spiritual organ?

And that then leads to why, which must I think lead to a who. As in who is responsible for the development? If it were purely in terms of an environmentally produced physical adaption, there is no need of any “supernatural” being or sentience.

But once spirituality is involved, it seems that there must be some type of awareness to cause, design, and create the structure. And that is because that requires order. Unless spitituality actually does not refer to something concrete and real, and is merely a trick we play on our own minds.

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Prana - Sarcasm

I will not lecture the subject of sarcasm or humor, for that I would leave it up to the comical geniuses. I will say that it is difficult to read into someones sarcasm via words you see in front of you. Prana, no, I was not being sarcastic, nor was any humor attached when I wrote it, although you are free to interpret my messages as you wish.

  • Nexus
8

Nope, still reads like a bad psychiatrist visit. I can’t seem to convey my point exactly. Maybe psychotropic drugs would help? :wink:

9

kungfu cowboy,

Of course your question is assuming evolution and excluding the possiblity of special creation. Neither of which are proven.

As to this comment:

“But once spirituality is involved, it seems that there must be some type of awareness to cause, design, and create the structure. And that is because that requires order. Unless spitituality actually does not refer to something concrete and real, and is merely a trick we play on our own minds.”

I could address it, but do you really want another long dissertation.

Sincerely,

Scott

10

Really? I thought evolution was pretty much a given at this point! I have seen first hand in my school work several indications that it is indeed a reality. Most convincingly from comparative anatomy and the genesis of organisms at the cellular, genetic and chemical levels. (Even that could be the will of the universe.)

And I wouldn’t mind more lengthy diatribe either. :slight_smile:

11

Cowboy,

I’ll work on the diatibe.

About evolution, It is a given based on the assumptions one begins with. Change the foundational assumptions and you change the conclusions. As an example: adaptation is frequently used as a proof of evolution, which it clearly is not. Changing individual characteristics in not he same thing as changing an entire structure. I am not defending creation, but neither will I defend evolution. They are both based upon induction, therefore there is alway a possiblity of error and neither will be known as absolute fact. At the University level of education you will only get a biased perspective, the same applies if you received a religious perspective education.

And as I frequently state, neither is pertinent to enlightenment, just interesting to discuss.

I’ll write a diatribe after my workout.

Sincerely,

Scott

12

Kungfu Cowboy

I kept my eye out for evolution. From somewhere I read, that humans evolved because of good karma from beings of the lower 3 realms.

They have observed 5 basic precepts “panca-sila”.

  1. No lie
  2. No killing
  3. No stealing
  4. No taking of intoxicants
  5. No sexual misconduct

It maybe purely accidental, but that is how humans evolved. I am just passing on what I read this time.

13

humans evolved because of good karma from beings of the lower 3 realms.

prana: wouldent those beings need to do those things on a ‘primative’ level in order to compete with other lower beings and survive?

Those rules seem to be rules observed only by beings gifted with wisdom.

Am I making a ‘bad’ assumption concerning competition and the drive for survivial among the ‘lower beings.’

strike!

14

prana,

Unfortunately humans currently perform all of those actions.

Sincerely,
Scott

15

do or do-not ?

perhaps the reason why many may be reborned in the lower realms aagin. how sad :frowning:

16

assumptions

Just wanted to throw this out…

It seems that a few people are presuming that we are the most “evolved” creatures on the planet with talk about lesser beings etc. Is it wise to make this assumption?

Plus who ever heard of the fact of evolution I was taught that Darwin came up with the “theory of evolution”…hmmmm

17

well, all i can tell you is i am a fish with legs, and i do want to know the ultimate nature of reality! (why i’m not sure)

i know this is simplistic and not really answering the Q’s you’re asking, but i just wanted to add that 1) i also agree that evolution is far from a guaranteed absolute fact, and 2) i’ve never seen why evolution and a “higher being/intelligence” have to be mutually exclusive.
eg. god makes world - god “sets off” evolution (so he can have the weekends off)
*i don’t believe in (as in “put my faith in”) god OR evolution, but i don’t see them as mutually exclusive.

even evolution though (to me at least) hints at extroardinary things, that such amazing things as life and people and hyundais’ and morning coffee biscuits all could spring from the fact that a couple of atoms formed proteins which banged together and “decided” to form life!
seems to hint at some sort of underlying order to the universe, explaining it away with “squillions of years” doesn’t satisfy me when i really think about it (just my opinion of course)

BTW looks like i might finally get around to doing a vipassna retreat, so i can only hope this fish with legs might get one step closer to understanding something

___________________________________________________________________________ “I’m just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!”

18

Fish of Fury

Where is your Vipasyana retreat at ?

19

blackheath
(sure you’ve never heard of it :wink: )

___________________________________________________________________________ “I’m just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!”

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Fish of Fury (love that name! :smiley: ) sez:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> i’ve never seen why evolution and a “higher being/intelligence” have to be mutually exclusive.
eg. god makes world - god “sets off” evolution (so he can have the weekends off)
*i don’t believe in (as in “put my faith in”) god OR evolution, but i don’t see them as mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

Yeah, that would make the most sense. However, if it were the case, I would think it would have turned up in the bible, or have been bandied about in some form prior to recently being theorized by science. Know what I mean?