# Bruce Lee this,Bruce Lee that.!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Martial Media and Popular Culture\ **Created:** [May 20, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152 "2002-05-20T18:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/5f8ce5/32.png) [@zipper](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/zipper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/1 "2002-05-20T18:24:16Z")
Who is sick of hearing about someone who tryed to buy Yip Man,and not even show hes respect to the old man in hes last days of life. I think the fight, Wong Jack Man vs Lee was a defeat to Bruce Lee.Who is going to belive someone who used drugs and had no respect for hes style or Master,not me. Hey just my 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![tri2bmt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tri2bmt](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/tri2bmt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/2 "2002-05-20T18:30:10Z")
Fair enough but Yip Man was a regualar smoker of Opium which led to his eventual throat cancer and death. Granted Bruce Lee didn’t seem to care about his style but I think he really appreciated it and never forgot it for what it gave him. I think most of his classical bashing came from seeing American Karate-do people acting like robots. ---
**Author:** ![yuanfen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecae2f/32.png) [@yuanfen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yuanfen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/3 "2002-05-20T19:16:17Z")
Ok Ok— I am going to see the Yip Man movie when it comes out with Bruce lee and Linda Lee in it.. Ok Ok—without Bruce Lee there may not have been a kung fu craze (what would have been so bad with that). Ok OK— magazine covers will continue to feature Bruce Lee till kingdom come. Ok Ok- Bruce Lee really proved to the karate stars of his time that wing chun had more flow than karate. Ok Ok- the distortion does not matter. bruce Lee was in Wong Shon Leung’s classes and was not a direct student of Yip Man. Ok Ok- so BL’s sil lim tao(see Yim Lee book which was really BL’s book) was a muscled sil lim tao with little nim in it. But I still think that if they want to with good research and dramatic writing Yip Man can be a great movie subject with justa little hint of the Bruce Lee saga. His personal exploits were so many- barely touched upon in the standard stories. In the right writers hands they are great fuel.Even the very small story there in Victor Kan;s old site of YM dispatching a guy who was beating up on his wife outside the kwoon. His handling of some karate guys who dropped on on a private lesson.His early fights with others in Fatshan. The Japanese era. Being in trouble with the new Communist regime. Escaping. Putting Leung Shun in his place. Controllinga young tough…WSL. For human drama… his personal life… children–some unrecognized still…there are lots of stories that if properly developed could keep Yip Man as the main focus… and could be dramatic. Look what Robert De niro did with Jake Lamotta’s almost forgotten story before The Raging Bull. ---
**Author:** ![Miles\_Teg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Miles\_Teg](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Miles_Teg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/4 "2002-05-20T22:32:06Z")
Yeah it good be good. But whats the bet there’ll be at least one spinning backflip roundhouse kick in it though. ---
**Author:** ![Lust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@Lust](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lust)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/5 "2002-05-21T00:05:54Z")
Re: Bruce Lee this,Bruce Lee that.!! > Originally posted by zipper > [B]Who is sick of hearing about someone who tryed to buy Yip Man,and not even show hes respect to the old man in hes last days of life. I think the fight, Wong Jack Man vs Lee was a defeat to Bruce Lee.Who is going to belive someone who used drugs and had no respect for hes style or Master,not me. Hey just my 2 cents. [/B] Ok I don’t know much about Bruce Lee or Master Yip Man but who excactly used drugs. I could’nt quite understand your sentence. ---
**Author:** ![fgxpanzerz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fgxpanzerz](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/fgxpanzerz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/6 "2002-05-21T03:28:21Z")
Bruce Lee’s one inch punch Did u guys know that after BL’s famous one inch punch demonstration in Madison Square Garden, he get his arse beat by a few southern praying mantis guys since he said he was a southern mantis master. They were supposed to kill him but decided not to since he was a rising star that could provide them with funds. ---
**Author:** ![yuanfen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecae2f/32.png) [@yuanfen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yuanfen)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/7 "2002-05-21T06:17:51Z")
Where did you get that story? Stories! ---
**Author:** ![kungfu\_cowboy](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/kungfu_cowboy/32/71_2.png) [@kungfu\_cowboy](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/kungfu_cowboy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:24am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/8 "2002-05-21T06:24:49Z")
You left off the ending! Where he actually turned into a giant (well, 5’2") praying mantis and bit off all their heads! Boogie boogie!😛 ---
**Author:** ![Phil\_Redmond](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/phil_redmond/32/186_2.png) [@Phil\_Redmond](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Phil_Redmond)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/9 "2002-05-21T13:09:12Z")
Yuanfen You wrote: \>\>Ok Ok- the distortion does not matter. bruce Lee was in Wong Shon Leung’s classes and was not a direct student of Yip Man. \<\< Bruce Lee was a student of Yip Man. Some one found out that Bruce was Eurasian, (part German). The seniors got Yip Man to dismiss him. At that time Wong Shun Leung had his own school. Bruce Lee went to Wong Shun Leung after that. Yes, Yip Man was an Opium addict. The reason the students were able to convince Yip Man to dismiss Bruce, whom he liked, was because he had the Opium problem and wasn’t very responsible with the rent. He was given a stipend to live on from his seniors for his own good. They threatened his stipend if he didn’t make Bruce leave. Yip Man asked Wong Shun Leung to teach him. The last 10 months before Bruce left for the States, he trained with Cheung Cheuk Hing, (William Cheung), who introduced Bruce to Yip Man. ---
**Author:** ![yuanfen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecae2f/32.png) [@yuanfen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/yuanfen)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/10 "2002-05-21T13:51:06Z")
Phil That’s William Cheung’s version of the story. Lots of stories. ---
**Author:** ![anerlich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@anerlich](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/anerlich)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/11 "2002-05-22T00:31:43Z")
> Did u guys know that after BL’s famous one inch punch demonstration in Madison Square Garden, he get his arse beat by a few southern praying mantis guys since he said he was a southern mantis master. They were supposed to kill him but decided not to since he was a rising star that could provide them with funds. No but I heard the one about the guy who challenged Bruce and Bruce riped his heart out of his chest and showed it to him before he died. About both stories I say: “I smell BOOLSHEEEIT!” Glad to see those brave PM guys decided on a multiple attack, in the unlikely event the story has any basis in reality. Bruce Lee mightn’t have been a saint. However, I reckon a significant number of people started MA training as a direct result of his activities. He mightn’t deserve adoration or worship, but he does deserve respect. Many WC schools worldwide continue to use his involvement with WC as a hook in their advertising. ---
**Author:** ![fgxpanzerz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fgxpanzerz](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/fgxpanzerz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/12 "2002-05-22T02:51:23Z")
anerlich believe whatever you want. They teamed up because they were gonna KILL him, not to just beat him up which they did anyway. This is where Bruce Lee’s famous letter comes into play, the one where he says that Yip Man had great skill but he can’t compare to the fighters of NYC Chinatown. Bruce Lee got his arse wooped by many people no one knows about. William Cheung has a letter written to him from Bruce Lee detailing all of this information. ---
**Author:** ![anerlich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@anerlich](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/anerlich)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/13 "2002-05-22T03:40:17Z")
> believe whatever you want That’s my plan. > William Cheung has a letter written to him from Bruce Lee detailing all of this information. William Cheung? Oh, _now_ you’re talking. He’s _never_ made any exaggerated or unverifiable claims about MA or WC history. And according to him, Bruce would have been killed about a dozen times before he left HK had William Cheung not been there to save him. Man, I can’t believe I’ve posted twice on this most ridiculous of subjects. Yeah, the joke must be on me. ---
**Author:** ![fgxpanzerz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fgxpanzerz](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/fgxpanzerz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 3:48am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/14 "2002-05-22T03:48:34Z")
hmm how do u know what William Chueng says about Bruce Lee isn’t true? Were u in Hong Kong to verify or to denounce his claim? I doubt it. Post again. ---
**Author:** ![TenTigers](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tentigers/32/74_2.png) [@TenTigers](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/TenTigers)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/15 "2002-05-22T04:03:22Z")
Bruce Lee was quoted saying, “there are guys waiting on tables whose skill surpasses, dare I say it-Sifu,” He was referring to Mark Foon, (Grandmaster Gin Foon Mark) who was a waiter in Chinatown, at Jook Lum a resteraunt owned by Lam Sang-BTW Mark Foon says that he and Bruce were good friends and trained often together. There are pictures of Bruce wearing what appears to be striped PJ bottoms, performing movements from Sam Bo Gin. There are a few different versions of this story, so I take each one with a grain of salt. At this point, I am retaining water. ---
**Author:** ![TenTigers](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tentigers/32/74_2.png) [@TenTigers](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/TenTigers)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/16 "2002-05-22T04:13:18Z")
Let’s not forget that BL’s relationship with Yip Man was strained, and he really never learned the entire system, and Yip Man was quite old at the time, and Bruce didn’t really train very directly under him, and, and…so I don’t see this as meaning that he met with a superior system, just superior fighters. Oh, and BTW, have you ever seen old pics of Gin Foon Mark? The man was buff to say the least. Sifu Norman Chin is also pretty muscular. no wonder they threw him around like a rag doll.(from what I’ve heard) I don’t think that there is one superior system, just superior fighters. These systems all were developed about the same time, during life and death struggles. If there was a superior style, the others would have gone by the wayside. It would be pretty stupid to continue doing a system, stubbornly clinging to it when a better method is developed. These systems are simply specializations born from each individual founder’s preference for specifc techniques and concepts. In other words, “It’s all good!” ---
**Author:** ![fgxpanzerz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fgxpanzerz](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/fgxpanzerz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/17 "2002-05-22T04:40:06Z")
ten tigers does muscle matter much when it comes to martial arts? I mean, isn’t better technique more important than big muscles? ---
**Author:** ![Rafael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Rafael](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Rafael)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/18 "2002-05-22T19:50:08Z")
I think this is a ridiculous topic… it’s like who can beat who?.king Kong vs godzilla? Point is Bruce Lee is dead and people should learn to respect the dead. After all he is not here to deny or to make any statements about these wild claims. It is clear the positive contributions Lee has made to martial arts world …after all you all are still talking about him after so many years after his death right? I think it is cowardly to talk about a person who cannot defend him or her. It makes those with the negative statements look insecure and jealous ! Where were all these "mantis " guys when Bruce was alive? Now they come out of the woodwork with their BS? Yes when he cannot defend himself ! Bruce Lee respected Gin Mark and preying mantis… but lets not go overboard with these tall tales wild claims . RF ---
**Author:** ![Rafael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Rafael](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Rafael)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:55pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/19 "2002-05-22T19:55:53Z")
I think this is a ridiculous topic… it’s like who can beat who? King Kong vs godzilla? Point is Bruce Lee is dead and people should learn to respect the dead. After all he is not here to deny or to make any statements about these wild claims. It is clear the positive contributions Lee has made to martial arts world …after all you all are still talking about him after so many years after his death right? I think it is cowardly to talk about a person who cannot defend him/herself. It makes those with the negative statements look insacure and jealous ! Where were all these "mantis " guys when Bruce was alive? Now they come out of the woodwork with their BS? Yes when he cannot defend himself ! Bruce Lee respected Gin Mark and preying mantis… but lets not go overboard with these tall tales wild claims . Could you personaly stand up to Bruce Lee? If not do not talk and hide behind your masters .Stand on your own 2 feet ! RF ---
**Author:** ![anerlich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@anerlich](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/anerlich)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152/20 "2002-05-22T21:27:55Z")
> Post again. Only because you asked so politely… > Were u in Hong Kong to verify or to denounce his claim? I doubt it. Well, FWIW, I was in HK in 1982 at a tournament also attended by William Cheung. But I thought this alleged incident happened in NY, so what does being in HK have to do with anything? My first instructor has been teaching KF since 1969 and was a student of William Cheung in the late 1960’s. The family of a friend and former workmate have a non-KF business relationship with William Cheung and know him well. I gained instructor certification from the WWCKFA in 1995 under William Cheung’s most senior student at the time, prior to our school severing ties in 1996. I think I have a better perspective on this than you do. Were _you_ in HK to _verify_ his claims? I doubt it. The point is, to accept everything (anything) William Cheung says as gospel, you have to accept his stories about Traditional and Modified WC, and that only he was taught the “true” version of Wing Chun by Yip Man. I can’t, therefore I take most of what he claims about history, BL etc. with lots of salt. That said, CMA is rife with tall tales and I don’t think William Cheung is any worse than a lot of others when it comes to exaggeration and over-mystification and dramatisation of events. Just more outspoken. In his “My life with Wing Chun” (which I assume, as a scholar of these subjects, you have read), and in other writings, William Cheung paints Bruce Lee alternately as a poor little rich kid who Cheung took under his wing, or a hothead with poor judgement who got into a number of dicey situations with gangsters, and only William Cheung’s skill and imtelligence were able to save Bruce from himself. All of these stories may be true, but they do sound a little too conveniently self-serving and cannot be corroborated. If they are true, however, then it should come as no surprise that Bruce would have some trouble with a group of skilled Mantis fighters. There are other stories of how Bruce used to get under Gene LeBell’s skin, and Gene would occasionally pick him up and carry him around the room until he calmed down. Joe Lewis is on record as saying that Bruce rarely sparred and that he (Joe) had some reservations at his ability to prevail in real combat, though none about his knowledge or skill as a teacher. Bruce Lee wasn’t invincible? Imagine! I find it ridiculous that anyone gets so worked up about this stuff. But I love a good argument on a ridiculous subject. > does muscle matter much when it comes to martial arts? I mean, isn’t better technique more important than big muscles? Skill had better be more important, or we are wasting our time and might as well all start pumping iron fulltime. The skill of two combatants being equal, though, I’m betting on the stronger guy. [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/bruce-lee-this-bruce-lee-that/12152.md?page=2)