Best Martial Art

Martial Media, Culture and Other Arts Other Related Arts
1

I keep hearing/reading people ask this same question. The
truth is, hardly any style prepares you for all situations.
I have studied several martial arts systems for the last 16 years.
Not one was complete. To defeat a man with empty hands one
must be skilled in: Striking, Throwing, Joint Manipulation and Strangulation & Choking (two are different). An artist must
also be skilled in: Kicking Range, Punching Range, Trapping and/or
Clinching Range, and Ground Fighting Ranges of combat. One must train realistically, not in a vacuum. Throwing techniques in the air for years is like learning to swim in the shower. There are few arts which address all these fighting attributes and fight ranges. In most cases, one has to seek supplemental training from professionals skilled in other areas of combat (be it seeing a Brazilian Jiujitsu stylist for ground fighting, Kung Fu stylist for stand up, Muay Thai kickboxer for effiency/power kicking and conditioning, etc. etc.). To be killed martial artists we must know what we don’t know. Not all karate styles are “bad.” Some Karateka can give a Kung Fu fighter a run for his money. I have seen it happen time and time again.
One is responsible for his or her own training. If an instructor says to his/her that his system is all one needs, the potential student should be carefull. There are complete systems out there, but most don’t come even close.

MA fanatic

2

Tae bo is a complete system.

Complete bull$hit, but complete.

3

“To be killed martial artists we must know what we do’nt know”
sorry. just had to quote it.:slight_smile:

4

I believe that the black and white is the rare and complete cookie style.

5

Good point Chen. I think many martial artists forget what they don’t know, and fall prey to people who can exploit these weakness.

MA fanatic

6

Uhh.. MA fanatic, you do know that I quoted a typing mistake in your topic, right?!
(s)killed

7

Dude, how could I not figure it out. I responded sarcastically.
Thanks for your help. lol

MA fanatic

8

MA Fanatic in your origional post you say “I have studied several martial arts systems for the last 16 years. Not one was complete” Mabe the trouble is that in your 16 years of mixed training you will not of completed any of the styles you were doing. (This is just a gues so correct me if im wrong) This could mean that the styles were complete and you just didn’t learn everything you could have. I personaly believe that if you stick with a style (if you have a good teacher) you will learn how to defend yourself against anything. At the end of the day people only have 2 amrs and 2 legs so we are all limited in the way that we can fight.

9

Ish: I have posted my martial arts background on another thread. Ok here goes. I studied Kung Fu for 4 years (trained hard during that time, 6 days a week two hours a day). I was obsessed at that time. I started with Wing Chun. My instructor was more of a drill sergeant and also utilized a lot of Chin Na in hi training. There was another Chinese man teaching a style called Hung Gar. I trained with him on and off, but concentrated on Wing Tsun (chung). When my school relocated, I wanted to get a better understanding of kicking. I searched hard, and finally found another drill sergeant Korean guy. He was a 6th degree in TKD (five time Korean national champion), 5th dan in Hapkido (Korean art focusing on joint manipulations), 2nd dan in Kodokan Judo (his father was actually a coach for the Korean Olympic team in the Korean Udo college), and was a champion of Soul Korea in boxing. Funny thing, when I met this Korean master, he was about to enroll in a praying mantis school a few miles away. The guy gave only 6 black belts in his 12 years of teaching in the state. All black belts stuck wiht him for 12 years. I stayed with him for 7 years before he moved with his family out of state. I tested for black belt under him shortly before he moved. Later I just wondered from school to school trying to find good instruction. I trained from a Kyoshu jitsu guy for some time (I think it was close to a year) but finally found a school teaching Muay Thai (instructors under Chai Serisute), JKD (instructors under Dan Inosanto and Larry Hartsell), and Brazilian JJ (machodo). I trained at that school for over 3 years. Then the school merged with a gym too far for me to commute so I found Caique (he is a world Brazilian JJ champion and old teacher at the Gracie academy). So now I’m with him.

What I meant by no art being complete, is that no art gives you all dementions of fighting. My Wing Chun could easily be countered with strong Thai leg kicks and wrestling take downs. AS a matter of fact, I have seen many wing chun guys beaten by wrestlers (William Cheung was even taken to the ground by a wrestler). My TKD kicks (though extremely quick…and I had full contact sparring experience) would not stop a take down or a strong leg kick. The hapkido joint locks look great, but against a resisting oppoent, if you dont secure his body right, he will escape. I think all martial artists should cross train. This is only my opinion. But, I just dont believe that one art (usually created by one person) has the asnwers to all situations. I can become an expert TKD kicker, but on a day like today (its icy outside), I’m helpless. A Kung Fu master skilled in glamorous animal styles can be easily taken down to the ground and choked unconsious (I have seen this happen, actually have it on tape). A BJJ guy may be skilled on the ground, but against multiple apponents, he has to stand up. And, all fights go to the ground, so even an expert kick boxer can fall prey to take down and pummeled on the ground.

What style do you train in? I suggest, go on a journey to discovery. Step into a full contact ring once and see how your techniques fair against another style in full contact, no rules competition (there are many guys who would love to oblige just for experience). Don’t let your teacher brainwash you into thinking that his style is invincible. It isn’t. I have heard one guy tell me that his teacher would only fight to the death. That’s bull ****. That is a copout and an excuse. It hurts to find out that an art you have been studying and teaching wont be able to stop a classic shoot take down or a simple combination from an accomplished boxer. I had my eyes opened. BTW, my views are shared by people like Bruce Lee, Dan Inosanto, Gichin Funakoshi, Rickson Gracie, and many other martial arts masters.

MA fanatic

10

The last time I read an interview with Dan Inosanto, he was studying yoga.

Learning to fight is very important, but I believe it has it’s limits. Everyone loses. I think the Gracies proved that no matter how much experience you have, how much strength you have, how much heart you have, or how good your technical ability is you can still lose.

That is why I think it is is important to experience a high level of competition, and then move on. You need to know what it is like to fight full contact, but you need not fight full contact all of the time. We always hear of the great full contact fighters, but we don’t hear of the thousands who are injured so severely they can no longer train or those who, under a string of perpetual losses, give up hope and quit.

Competition and full contact “testing” are valuable, but very high risk. Do it, know it, move on. (Unless you want to be a professional fighter of course.)

11

Im currently training in wing chun but i’ve only been doing it for a couple of years so i think it would be bad for me to crosstrain at the moment. I think i will continue with wing chun for at least a few more years before i think about trying any other styles. I know that at the moment i wouldn’t do too well against some arts like more ground based styles. I do however believe that when i have trained for longer i should be able to effectively defend against any punch or kick and hopefully be able to finish a fight before the person gets a chance to take me to the ground

12

Ma Fanatic

I hope I don’t to sound too insulting but everything you’ve said in that long diatribe of yours actually weakens your defence somewhat. That long list of the few arts you’ve studied and the wonderful acolades that all your teachers have acquired a) showed as you say that you have no complete art; b) more so it seems that you haven’t been able to stick around long enough to complete the art so as to experience it at its fruition. I can’t quite seem to see why your garrolous stand in such a biased and imbalanced attitude saying that your 16 years of experience has led you to know the truth as far as what art is so and art isn’t therefore we must all run out and study fragments of as many as possible. I know this sounds insulting and I didn’t really want to be but, you’ve seemed to forgotten that all most 90 % of people come on this forum and accept the fact that what they say is merely opinion, some people do have the facts to back it up, but a lot don’t. You make it sound like what you are saying is factual. Im sorry but thats just so laughable. You have seen one person on tape fall to another and therefore you feel justified in declaring that that persons art is insufficient!!! Maybe his art wasn’t and just the application of his skill was, thereore the art remains in tact. Everyone does it at some point, but there really is no real need for people to come on here and pontificate to this level, espcially when the hypocrosises are obvious and transparent.

13

Good point, Repulsive Monkey. I think you’ve nailed it down exactly right.

14

MY Uninstulted answer lol

Guys:
I’m not sure you guys are reading my initial thread. I have always stated that what I write is merely my own opinion. I was not insulted at all up until the point where someone called me a hypicrit. I think four years is enough to figure out what Wing Chun is all about. Certainly, 7 years is enough as well. I believe it was Bruce Lee who stated to William Cheung (who was taken down at will by a mediocre grappler being a grandmaster himself in one art…had he cross trained this could have been avoided) in their conversation (both men trained from Yip Man) that “I will beat you because all your life you’ve been doing the same thing while I cross trained and have seen the other truths.” I don’t claim to know the absolute truth. But, what you may seem as jumping around from school to school, I see as cross training and searching for answers. Tell me, how am I any worse than a master of Praying Mantis who’s two ribs I cracked with a Thai kick? The guy had trained for 20 years in one style. Tell me, why am I so bad if I took down a Karate 3rd dan with 15 years experience in one art with a basic wrestling shoot? Can I do it again? Depends on my opponent. Some karate guys and praying mantis masters will kill me in a minute. I know my limmitations and i know what I dont know. And, for those who say that I site isolated incidents, trust me, there are many who will back me up, and I have seen many more followers of a single style be crushed by someone who has cross trained. There is nothing wrong with having one art as the main focus of life’s long work, and at the same time cross training in other systems. Why is that bad? Because a master who may be teaching an outdated art convinced you that his style is all you need? You guys need to wake up if you believe that. I love kung fu. I will most likely train in it again. I think the only difference between me and some other people is that I have the courage to admit what I don’t know and what my art lacks instead of hiding behind a master or a system. In my opinion, no art is complete. No master has all the answers. It is up to the student to fill in the missing holes.

MA fanatic

15

one more thing

For the record, I posted my martial arts background because someone asked. I changed schools because schools tend to relocate and masters do move. I do attend seminars of any martial arts instructor who comes into town just to meet a famous MA master, to learn new techniques and to explore new theories on combat.

MA fanatic

16

Part 2

Im sorry but again you’ve done the same in weakening your defence really. I will not put down cross training, but it is a substitute for geuinge long term training in many repsectable and TRADITIONAL (as opposed to your decision to use the word “outdated”) arts. I suspect that you never eally saw the real truths in these gaps you’ve been filling in, because I know for a fact that no Master would see fir to pass on probably a partial transmission after having been there for for just 4 years.

Definition of the word fanatic = person filled with abnormal enthusiasm.

I hope you receive the humour in this and don’t take it too seriously, but you very biased in your rhetoric, surely you must see that only a mere handful will take you seriously??

17

Repulsive Monkey: I think you’re someone who has a great sense of humor. You of all people are commenting on my screen name? lol lol OK so I’m a MA fanatic. I love the arts. Love reading about them, learning about them, seeing practitioners of all arts practice, etc. etc. I have traveled all over, but the most beautiful thing in this world is seeing a dojo, dojang, kwoon, gym, what ever you want to call a martial arts training hall filled with people working out hard. I realize that certain aspects of a martial art will not be taught to me. I left my Kung Fu school not of my own will. But, it was the best thing I did. My master would tell me that Wing Chun is a complete art, but when I stepped into a ring with someone skilled in another art, I quickly realized what I lacked. At the time I lacked strong powerful kicks. Once I spend seven years of hard training in perfecting my kicks (at the time I also competed), I realized that my take down skills were next to none. I also had no ground fighting experience. Where do you go to learn to fight on the ground? Trust me Wing Chun isn’t going to provide you with any answers. And, against a skilled grappler, you’re going to do the ground even if you’re a Wing Chun grandmaster. So you go to people who can fill in that gap. People who can trully teach you the mechanics of the clinch, the physics behind throws and the science behind submission holds. Does that mean Wing Chun is bad? NO. Does it mean Hapkido and/or Tae Kwon Do is useless? NO. But, they lack in certain aspects of combat. There are historical reasons why Chinese fight a certain way, Japanese fight another way, and for example Pencak Silat fighters of Indonesia fight a third way. It is foolish to think that any art will prepare you for everything. Who knows more about knife fighting than the Siliat fighters, Escrimadors, and or Russian Spetznaz soldiers? Wing Chun isn’t going to teach you anything usefull in that arena. What about a famous Wing Chun guy who spent 25 years in the art, who was taken down in 15 seconds by a skilled Judo player name Igor Zinoviev in Extreme Fighting Championship 2. Its on video, go out and rent it. About people agreeing with me, I think since the day of Bruce Lee, more and more people (even famous masters like Dan Inosanto) see things my way. WE’re living in the gold age of martial arts. The only reason your master is convinced that his art is so great and obviously has you convinced as well is because in his day, he wasn’t exposed to other arts.

MA fanatic

18

I dissagree with so much of that last post im not even going to bother telling you what. Im glad you feel the way you train is the best way for you because thats the only person you should be training for and mabe after ive done another few years training in wing chun i’ll suddenly realise how many holes do need filling.

Probly not tho

19

Ma Fanatic

It’s nice to hear that one of the holes you managed to fill up was telepathy, as now it seems you can tell me just what my Master has and has not studied in the past. Unfortunately you assume wrongly in that instance, he studied under others too but decided when he met a decent Master to reside with him, and from there he never lost a match especially when it was a real fight i.e. not on a video in a make shift ring but in real life situations and in the practices halls of others schools of other arts, but of course respectfully.

Please carry on though…what can you tell me now…

20

Whats wrong with you guys?

Repulsive Monkey: Do you take everything you read seriously? I was talking about “your master” hypothetically. I don’t know you or your master. I don’t even know which style you study. The matches I talk about are also challenge matches, no rules competitions, street fights, Vale Tudo competitions, etc. etc. I’m glad your master is unbeatable. Perhaps he is. But, like him, I went from school to school to find answers. I have found instructors such as Vladimir Vasiliev, Dan Inosanto, Mikhael Rybko, Paul Vunak, Marko Lala, etc. who cover all ranges of combat as well as teach all attributes necessary to defeating a man bare handed (strikes, joint manipulations, strangulation/choking, and throws). There are people who can make one art work for them. Great. I personally cannot. I also took on weight lifting several years back for more power. To compensate I also studied Yoga to keep my my stretch and power in kicks.

You guys cant be serious when you argue that certain arts are just better at a particular aspect of combat than other arts. There is nothing wrong with a master, or practitioner of one style to seek suplemental training in the other. William Cheung is a grandmaster of Wing Chun. He was taken down at will by a guy who had college wrestling background. None of his sticky hands, wooden dummy training, and trapping helped him one bit. People attending the seminar had to pull the grappler off a grandmaster. Now, what if Cheung studied brazilian jiujitsu for one year (even if its on the side)? He would have submitted or controlled his attacker to a position where he could utilize Wing Chun.

My original thread said nothing about me being against any art. I also realize that I am merely stating my own opinion. Those that say I haven’t studied enough of one art may be correct. But, I say many dont even have enough martial arts experience in other arts to judge me. When push comes to shove, its not the person who was doing the same kata for 20 years and searching for deep meaning in its movements who is going to win. It is the individual who is conditioned physically and well cross trained.

All arts have weaknesses. And, trust me, it will not take long for someone who cross trained to figure them out. I was just like you at one point and loved knowing that my master is all knowing and has the answer to every situation. It wasn’t easy realizing that masters are all human, and don’t know everything. Martial arts is a personal journey. I chose one path, you chose another.

BTW, what art do you train in. I answered questions about my experience, why not share yours?

MA fanatic