I just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on Bar Fights. Recently a couple of my friends who train with me were involved in bar fights. There has been alot of sport on at the moment, and the crowds at the bars get quite aggressive.
Firstly my one friend is a barman and during the evening he got into an argument with a considerably larger guy. This guy reached over the bar and lifted my friend up against the counter. I could see that he didn;t know quite what to do since the guy had not thrown a punch, so he didn;t want to attack back. I eventually grabbed the guy by the neck and pulled him away. But How would you guys deal with something like that without having to actually break the guys nose or something, cause over here you get your ass suede off if you throw the first punch in that situation.
Basically what are the best holds and grips to use without having to throw the punch, cause I have never been the first to throw a punch, I will only ever attack back once the first punch has been throw unless I warned the guy that I will attack if he does not walk away.
One must learn how to fight, in order to learn how not to fight!
I have worked in several bars both as a bouncer and as a bartender. If anyone - ever - reached across the bar and grabbed me I WOULD HIT THE MOTHER F*CKER SO HARD HE WOULD NEVER DO IT AGAIN!
In every bar I have ever worked in the guy would have gotten his A$$ kicked.
First - a hostile grab is an implied threat in every state in the union and you are allowed to defend yourself with equal force in any confrontation.
Second - you are an employee of an establishement. Laws are typically more protective over employees getting attacked at work than people walking down the street.
And third - as long as you remember these six words you should be ok:
“I was afraid for my safety”
(substitute the word “life” for “safety” if you wind up killing the guy)
You are allowed to defend yourself if you are afraid for your life or your safety. Period. If the cops come those should be the first words out of your mouth
I aree with the last post. It is in fact assault if someone grabs you, pushes you, or even spits on you! You can actually press charges against that! Which means as well that most likely you can defend yourself as well. Im not saying that if someone spits on you, that you should punch them, but you get the point.
The the “substitute life for safety if you end up killing the guy” was pretty funny I must say.
I must say I do agree with you guys, it is considered assualt. In most of the confrontations I have been involved in if the guy does grab or push me I do attack full force back, but I have been in 1 or 2 confrontations where an eliment of the situation stopped me from attacking.
I was in a family pub, and got into an argument with a sizable chap for knocking over my girlfriends drink. I simply put it forward that he appologise, to which he grabbed ahold of the front of my shirt. My reaction was immediatly to stick my fist through his fact, but a little boy of about 8 years old was standing next to him pulling on his pant saying he was scared, and it was this guys son. I just looked down and thought of what it would be like for this 8 year old to watch his fathers teeth become imprinted on the back of his head. So I pull his arms off and he just looked sheeping and walked away.
The thing is that some confrontations that even lead to grabbing or pushing cannot alway be followed up by a fist to his head. I just wanted to know if you guys new of some good techniques to control those situations. As my Sifu said it’s alot harder to control the situation than it is to overpower the situation. :rolleyes:
One must learn how to fight, in order to learn how not to fight!
I heard from a friend who is in trouble alot that when he asked a police officer how you could protect yourself; he was told that if he had you in a corner all you could do is Push him away.
As far as assault goes, yes the guy threatened you and you are allowed to defend yourself. Keep in mind, though, that a jury will decide how much force is necessary and if you have severely beaten the guy you can be in trouble/ jail. Although I have been in few fights(thankfully), what I’ve found to work in situations similar to what you described is to make the guy release his grip on your throat, pressure points are good for this, and then immobilize him with an arm takedown/ twist. If you just haul off and hit the guy(especially in a bar) the chances of others joining in or friends coming to his aid are high, but if you dissolve the situation by displaying control, willingness to act and not furthering the violence you can usaully walk away without hurting anyone too badly. But trying not to get into a situation where violence is even an option is even better.
I agree that pressure points should be used. This is however, only as a last resort. The only way to avoid the law and the police is to not be physical. Try reasoning with the person, and if this doesn’t work, if he’s grabbing your shirt, hit him in the temples or attempt a wrist lock. If you get out of a fight, you look much better to the ladies rather than having your blood or someone else’s blood on your shirt.
Try to put a stop to it peacfully. As in, threaten to, or actually call the police. Surround him/her with all the bouncers (aperson will usualy back down when completely outnumberd). But if all else fails then…punch to the stomach on a 45degreed down angle into the bladder and watch him pi$$ his own pants, then point and laugh.
Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready
I trained with a bar fighter who had no training, but was undefeated in the bar. First, realize that a bar fight is going to last only long enough for a bouncer or some of your friends (or his friends) to jump in. With that, going to the ground is stupid. If you can do “stand up grappling” (pressure points, throws, takedowns), that is the key. That is what policemen train in. His only strategy was to hit first. He’s probably the bad guy we’re looking out for, that’s why I trained with him.
JJMantis : His only strategy was to hit first. He’s probably the bad guy we’re looking out for, that’s why I trained with him.
That being his only strategy is the reason why he always won any altercations he was in. Its the only thing to train for and the only strategy to have once you are in absloute knowledge that the fight is ‘on’, if of course you want to learn to ‘defend’ yourself, in fact it should already be over once you have decided to hit first as as soon as you have made the decision you shoud already be hitting. Good people to train with these types, more than the physical you can learn how they ‘set up’ people for that first strike, this is probably more important than the strike.
Learn how people do this, and learn how to do this.
Good point made JJMantis
