Bak Mo Kuen?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
21

Nole, I teach in my Carle Place location, near Roosevelt Field, how old were you when you moved? My other location is on the border of Nassau county and Queens. You should come and visit sometime…

I agree that some schools of CLF might do somethings different than others. I do believe however, that although techniques do have variations, there are right and wrong ways to do techniques…do you agree?

Looking forward to strengthening the CLF community. In order to do so, I think we must question methods and concepts…only then can we discover the true path. (I sound like a fortune cookie!)

Long Live CLF!!!

22

I think that you can do things grossly wrong ie this technique will not accomplish what it is intended to accomplish. Then there “stylistic” differences which have more to do with how the technique is applied.

This is dependent upon your body type, attitude and, well, “style.” For example, my Sifu is around 5’6" and I’m 6’7". Do you think that we would apply everything the same way? Who is right and who is wrong? Well, we’re both “right” in our own way.

The most important thing is not the indvidual variation in the technique but that the practitioner is using the correct Jin/Ging in each technique. One technique can end up having many applications. No Jin/Ging=no effective applications.

23

I fully agree. Different size = different way to apply technique. Different size = different range/length of technique, amount of power, etc. Still doing it right, no matter whether it’s a big or small guy. My Sifu was about 5’6" adn 140bs. I’m 6" and 220lbs., I definately can do things a bit different, not wrong, but different.

24

is it possible that Lama Kung Fu could have been influenced by the likes of Choy Lee Fut and not the other way around? i mean it was and still is one of the most popular styles to come from asia.

Differences–stylistic or other wise is a good thing because the choy lee fut system would become very boring to watch after a while if everyone executed the exact same techniques the exact same way from here to kingdom come, and even more that much easier to defeat because we would all do the same stuff.

now, if we didn’t have to luxury of “differences” than martial arts would not be beneficial to people like Fu Pow because of his height. Not everyone is as tall as him. because of his height, he cannot do the same techniques the same way as other people. all of this techniques would have to go somewhat of a downward angle to fight shorter people instead of doing them his own head level, which will make it more difficult. the same goes for people fighting someone 6’7". you won’t be able to sow choy him in the head, all of your punches would have to go virtually upwards. this is where differences kick in, or should i say adapting.

see, a student is wrong and will be stuck in a rut if he believes that techniques are set in stone. hopefully we will have a good enough teacher to be able to assist in your personal quest of learning and using martial arts. it is always up to the new generations to take their clf into the next millenium and keep it growing.

if you are a fighter, and understand your martial arts well, than you can see- even in the weakest of techniques- the effectiveness of them, and then just make them work for you.

however, i agree with nole guacamole, forget whose is better and just keep working on yours.

anyways, on bak mo…is that strictly a chan family set because i don’t think fut san hsk has that set? also, could bak mo be more of “a few techniques” that most people have but added on to later on? it makes me wonder why are there only a few noticeable traces of moves from each school, branch etc, but the sets are almost completely different. sup gee , che kune, cheong kuen, kou da, i mean its all different from school to school.

are there specific techniques that are in each set all schools should have?

hsk

25

Lama Pai Sifu:

I moved to Florida when I was about 20 back in 1989. Growing up we had no kung fu around us and the city was way too far.

I agree techniques can be and are done wrong. My point was that by us merely watching a form without actually knowing that form as it was taught. We might think a technique should be used differently than the player might, thats all.

I also agree with Fu-Pow’s point about techniques being different for different sizes. I am only 5’8" so I do the techniques as much like my sifu as possible since we were relatively close in height.

I would be interested to hearing which other CLF sifus that Chan Tai San studied with. I read he studied with Chan Sai Mo, who was the son of Chan Siu Hung. His lineage would also go back to Chan Koon Pak.

Frank:

Thats a good new nicname, might have to keep it. For those who don’t know the Nole in CLFNole is not my name but represents the Florida State Seminoles as I went to college there and am a die-hard football fan. So the name combines my two favorite things: CLF and Football.

As far as what style influenced what. All styles have influences from other styles as there are only so many ways to kick and punch. All of the southern styles be it hop gar, hung gar, jow gar, hung fut or CLF have similar if not identical techniques. The older ones like hop gar/lama and hung gar likely influenced the newer ones like hung fut, CLF and jow gar. That doesn’t mean that the newer ones didn’t influence the older ones later on. :wink:

26

The question of doing a technique right or wrong is answered by continuous study as well as testing. If the shape and energy are wrong, it will very quickly become evident when touching hands. My 2 cents..

Todd

27

http://www.hongluck.org./index.html
I have heard that Chan Dau was a classmate of Chan Tai-San, possibly his Si-Hing. This would explain them both having CLF and Lama. Chan Dau is also known for his hard Ch’i gung abilities. I have never seen their CLF, but it would be interesting to see if there are similarities.

28

Rick,

Who told you that Chan Dau was a classmate of my Sifu, CTS?

All of the adopted disciples of Jyu Jik Chuynn, the student of both Wong Yan Lum and Wong Lum Hoi (Lama) and a student of Chan Goon-Bak (CLF) all have the adopted name “San” in their name. Chan Tai-San, Lei Wei-San, Jyu Wan-San, etc. I have a list of all these people and Chan Dau is not a classmate of my Sifu within that lineage.

It is possible that they both studied under someone else in common, but I would have to call the Hung Luck club in Toronto to find out any other info. My Sifu taugtht there for a year or so in the mid-eighties.

As I mention before, CTS studied with many CLF people, so I’m sure it’s possible that they had a Sifu in common at some point.

How’s the school going, Rick?

29

Lama Pai Sifu

I wondering where are the CLF clips CLFNole was talking about? On your site?

Also…I was just curious how come your screen name is “Lama Pai Sifu” when your favourite style was CLf? just wondering…

30

What is this Bak Mo Kuen, I probably know the name in English (I only speak Mandarin, and Cantonese is soooooo very confusing).

31

White hair monkey form

32

I’ve never heard or seen that form in the LKH lineage. Can somebody clear my limited knowledge?

33

Where did monkey come from? :confused: The name simply says white hair boxing. Are you perhaps confusing it with Tong Bei (white ape)?. I wouldn’t say there’s any monkey expression at all in the form.
Infrazeel, it’s a moderately high level form that bears the hallmarks you typically see in forms of this level. It’s hard for me to make comment as the form at my school is apparently different to the form at your schools (indeed, I never knew LKH schools did Bak Mo Kuen), but ours is probably on a par with the Heart of Bot Gwa form that Fu Pow did.

34

yep, lee koon hung style we have bak mo kuen. but this is Sow Choy’s cue to come in and explain further.

35

This is the longest of the hand forms in the Lee Koon Hung lineage. I have seen other versions such as Wong Gong’s or Chan Kin Man’s which are different and have seen some sections from the Chan Family that are similar.

In our version this form is very (very) long with a lot of jumping and kicking, angles and left and right side variations.

36

Bak Mo,

From what I have learned, White hair can mean experience, or at this level you should have some time under your belt… My sifu has mentioned people refer to it as an animal… Can’t translate what he said, one of those tranlastions that sounded like a wolverine or something, but I am just guessing…

Our form in the LKH lineage is very long and with many jumps as well as turns, so at 1st you can get dizzy (wun wun day), also in the beginning there is a posture with a low twist stance and “buy Fut”, hands in prayer position…

There are a few back kicks while you lean foward with double tiger claws, lots of left side stuff, sows, chops the works… To me its my favorite training form, it has most of the main techniques in it… It makes Sup Gee look like a basic form, and after doing Bak Mo for a while, you can blaze riht through sup gee a couple of times…

It really is quite amazing how it can increas your stamina… 2x a week I practice Sup gee and Bak Mo back 2 back with 5 pounds on each wrist and ankle… After that everyting is cake…

Bak Mo seems to be a form that trains you to move around and change direction, it has some odd angles (bagua), and some unual changes…

The flow is much better than bagua sum… Personallt bagua sum is not one of my favorites, because the flow of it is kinda strange and that last part in our lineage with the foward and backward chops is odd…

Joe

37

Very odd. :wink: But I have seen the sequence in some clips that were once on the Chan website.

38

This Bak Mo Kuen form must be lost to history; the Lee Koon Hung branches don’t care much about it. Currently, nobody practices it, or rather, nobody seems to know about it… Unfortunately, all that remains is to learn forms from other lineages, as the LKH seems to have stalled its development.