Baduanjin (8-section brocade)

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Qigong and Meditation
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[QUOTE=rett2;1319302]I breathe out there. I was instructed to breath “naturally” on 7 of the movements, and only one movement had explicit breathing instructions. But by breathing naturally I ended up synching breathing with the other movements as well.

The link you sent looks unnecessarily elaborate and overcomplicated. Or at least, that kind of approach is not for me. I don’t want a technical, academic, counterintuitive approach to moving energies around and breathing in weird tension-inducing ways, but rather a natural approach that allows the psychophysical organism to adjust and harmonise itself in its own way.[/QUOTE]

Makes sense to me Rett, on another note, I really like how Yan Lei uses his hands to rotate his torso on the draw the bow section. You can see what I’m talking about here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eT9uy9_XwA&t=12m18s

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[QUOTE=rett2;1319302]I don’t want a technical, academic, counterintuitive approach to moving energies around and breathing in weird tension-inducing ways, but rather a natural approach that allows the psychophysical organism to adjust and harmonise itself in its own way.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I DO want a “want a technical, academic” answer for the following. I’ve always wondered if there were historical bows where the outward hand presses against it like that, but I don’t know how it would be held up. It seems to make sense when I’m stretching the sleeves on my shirts before putting them on…

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[QUOTE=sirdude;1319305]Makes sense to me Rett, on another note, I really like how Yan Lei uses his hands to rotate his torso on the draw the bow section. You can see what I’m talking about here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eT9uy9_XwA&t=12m18s[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link. Always good to see Yan Lei’s instructional stuff. Do you mean the hands during the transition or during the actual drawing of the bow?

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I meant the bit before he draws back the bow. If you look at his other stuff he also does a similar thing with his arms when transitioning to cat stance when doing a basic stance form.

YinOrYan, I kind of doubt it. I also do not ride a horse exactly like I sit in horse stance.

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[QUOTE=sirdude;1319314]

YinOrYan, I kind of doubt it. [/QUOTE]

Perhaps it had something to do with a crossbow, sort of like this:

MuseumPhoto.jpg
MuseumPhoto.jpg999×666 49.6 KB

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[QUOTE=sirdude;1319314]I meant the bit before he draws back the bow. If you look at his other stuff he also does a similar thing with his arms when transitioning to cat stance when doing a basic stance form.[/QUOTE]

If we’re talking about the same thing, I wonder if the intent comes from a taichi application.

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Ng Man Tat

Comedy Icon Ng Man Tat No Longer Looks Frail And Sickly Thanks To Tai Chi
By*ILSA CHAN


Ng Man Tat
Now he wants everyone to get fit with [him] .
Published15 AUGUST, 2020 UPDATED 21 AUGUST, 2020

Now he wants everyone to get fit with [him] .

After years of being plagued with health problems, veteran Hongkong comedian Ng Man Tat seems to have turned his life around.

Earlier in the week, the actor, who is best known for being Stephen Chow’s sidekick in the auteur’s slapstick comedy classics, took to social media to share a short clip of himself practising tai chi. Along with the clip, he wrote: “Get fit with me. Everyone can become a master.”

Meet “Master Ng”
Dressed in a white singlet and black pants, “Master Ng” not only appeared energetic and in good spirits, but also looked fitter and healthier than he has in years.

He also dyed his hair black, which made him look younger than his 67 years.

Man Tat has come a long way health-wise
This is a far cry from how he looked a year ago when he was photographed looking frail and reportedly needed help walking.

Man Tat looking frail just last year
The comedian’s health struggles started in 2000 when he was diagnosed with diabetes, and almost had to amputate one of his legs.

In 2014, he was diagnosed with heart failure after a viral infection, and this spurred him to change his lifestyle. Despite his efforts, he revealed in 2015 that he could only recover 50 per cent of his heart’s function.

Last year, those photos of Man Tat looking frail also sparked concern about his health.

Man Tat at a promotional event for 2019 Chinese sci-fi flick The Wandering Earth
Photos: Weibo
Read more at https://www.8days.sg/sceneandheard/entertainment/comedy-icon-ng-man-tat-no-longer-looks-frail-and-sickly-thanks-13020638

Threads
The-Wandering-Earth
Celebrities-studying-Tai-Chi

I know it says Tai Chi but the pix look more like the Brocade.

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It very well could. Here is an example of his cat stance that I was talking about:
https://youtu.be/w-4n7cbNXZw?t=238

Changing the subject yet again. It’s crazy how many different forms of this you can find online.
When I was training with yan lei and yan zi in china in 2017 at the end of every workout we did the last section of this on its own as a cooldown/release of energy I think.
We did it multiple ways but did it pretty much every workout.

A semi unique way was grasping the left wrist with your right arm, both hands behind your back, as you rock up on your toes breathing in you relax your arms and then when you slam your feet down breathing out you extend your arms down as far as you can.

I think my favorite version of this last move though was where you interlace your fingers in front of your body started with your arms fully extended down with the palms up, as you raise up on your toes you bring hands up to about throat level, turn them over and as you slam your heels down you push down with your palms again extending your arms fully with a vocal exhale.

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Yeah, I think it’s kind of like how they have many of the same food dishes all around the country but prepare them in the local style.

The version of that move that I learned not only is done differently than elsewhere, but it’s also been moved to position 6 in the sequence, instead of being at the end.

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[QUOTE=rett2;1319337]Yeah, I think it’s kind of like how they have many of the same food dishes all around the country but prepare them in the local style.

The version of that move that I learned not only is done differently than elsewhere, but it’s also been moved to position 6 in the sequence, instead of being at the end.[/QUOTE]

That’s a good analogy, so then, is it a multi course meal? One instructor implied that it was a cumulative “sequence”. I’ve always done it pretty much in that order and just swapped-in similar variations into similar “position”, like when you can’t find some ingredient.

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[QUOTE=YinOrYan;1319341]That’s a good analogy, so then, is it a multi course meal? One instructor implied that it was a cumulative “sequence”. I’ve always done it pretty much in that order and just swapped-in similar variations into similar “position”, like when you can’t find some ingredient.[/QUOTE]

I’ve assumed it was a cumulative sequence, but I wasn’t taught the theory at all in the traditional learning setting. That makes it a much more exploratory process. In other learning situations (Western) there was loads of theory but not specifically about BDJ.

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If your familiar with Bob Cooley(https://www.thegeniusofflexibility.com/bob-cooley)
When you get into the details he explains that one exercise following another creates a natural flow that enhances the experience.
I don’t know if I buy into all of his stuff but it sounds reasonable to me, he ties it into the meridians as well, to come up with an ultimate path.

From my own personal experience we have a stretching routine that we go through in our kungfu class, and it mostly follows the same format each time with key stretches having their place, but we do a variety of stretches and the routine is always different, but the ordering stays mostly the same.
If you look at BWJ from a high level you can see it starts out with elongating bits, then switches to twisting bits and then goes more internally. It also kind starts at the top and works its way down the body.

I also look at the heel stomping as a clearing exercise so I would hesitate to move it from the end,
but at the same time I think it’s good to experiment and find what works best for you, there are clearly multiple ways
to do it and if you are listening to your body you should be able to clearly discern what works and what does not.

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I totally believe in there being a natural flow to it. I preface the whole thing with just standing and then a ready stance. And after the eight movements I have another movement I took from somewhere else that is more to enjoy the aftereffect of the BDJ and further sink/stabilise the qi, to speak the symbolspeak.

The movements in how I was taught are so different that none of the usual generalizations apply, or few of them anyway, I believe. It mixes elongation and twisting all kinds of ways. I believe one reason why the “heel stomp” (it’s not at all stomping in the version I do) is moved to 6th place is because it involves a slight compression of the lower spine, and the final movement (7th in the usual order, but 8th here) has more of a compression there when you lean way back. So it warms up that area ahead of time. That may not be the intended meaning, but it works that way.

The whole things feels just great though, especially with like 10 minutes of standing light stake before, and the added on 9th move at the end. There’s no better way to start the day.

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Rett I agree,

Not sure if any of you have done Channel Dredging I always feel taller when I’m done doing that exercise, however I also feel stiffer.
Doesn’t really lend itself to a video so don’t have one to link to it. Can describe further if needed.

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[QUOTE=sirdude;1319384]Rett I agree,

Not sure if any of you have done Channel Dredging I always feel taller when I’m done doing that exercise, however I also feel stiffer.
Doesn’t really lend itself to a video so don’t have one to link to it. Can describe further if needed.[/QUOTE]

I’d like to hear about it.

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The basics of it are you do the exercise 3 times with a different path each time and each exercise you do 9 times.
The first one you do on the front of the body, the second is on the back and the last is through the center.

You stand in wuji for a bit then turning your palms up, breathing in you your raise your arms up to the sides and up over your head.
You pause and imagine a cloud of chi in your hands above your head. Then you breath out and bring the ball of chi down the front of your
body following I think the stomach meridians.

The second set is similar but down the back following I believe the bladder meridians.

The last set you do the same thing but go down through the spine and then down through your leg bones.

I like the following link for looking at the meridian’s: https://theory.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoints/bladder_meridian_graphic
The way it was explained to me though the first path went more on the inside of the leg and the second one was more on the outside of the leg.
For the first part of the first section you just go down the forehead over the eyes and then follow the path.

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[QUOTE=sirdude;1319433]The basics of it are you do the exercise 3 times with a different path each time and each exercise you do 9 times.
The first one you do on the front of the body, the second is on the back and the last is through the center.

You stand in wuji for a bit then turning your palms up, breathing in you your raise your arms up to the sides and up over your head.
You pause and imagine a cloud of chi in your hands above your head. Then you breath out and bring the ball of chi down the front of your
body following I think the stomach meridians.

The second set is similar but down the back following I believe the bladder meridians.

The last set you do the same thing but go down through the spine and then down through your leg bones.

I like the following link for looking at the meridian’s: https://theory.yinyanghouse.com/acupuncturepoints/bladder_meridian_graphic
The way it was explained to me though the first path went more on the inside of the leg and the second one was more on the outside of the leg.
For the first part of the first section you just go down the forehead over the eyes and then follow the path.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Do you mean the movement is the same each time but that your attention is on different internal pathways? I’m pretty sure I was taught the first one of these, or something very similar, at a Taiji class some years ago.

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Yes movement is the same all the way through, focus different for each set.

One thing I forgot to mention is you may feel stuck when doing it at certain points, if you do focus on that spot briefly but then move on, make sure you go all the way down.
The idea is to open/reinforce the channels.

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[QUOTE=sirdude;1319449]Yes movement is the same all the way through, focus different for each set.

One thing I forgot to mention is you may feel stuck when doing it at certain points, if you do focus on that spot briefly but then move on, make sure you go all the way down.
The idea is to open/reinforce the channels.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, that sounds like solid advice.

I don’t usually feel anything in the channels as such, but distinct regions activate. Or when I activate a region there’s often a sympathetic effect in an adjacent region, for example gladdening the areas behind the eyes also causes the area behind the solar plexus to light up. So I assume the channel is working, even if I can’t perceive it.

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[QUOTE=YinOrYan;1319315]Perhaps it had something to do with a crossbow, sort of like this:[/QUOTE]

The last four seconds of this video suggest another possible explanation for the open hand in the archer move, other than just an energy thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NExY14Nwn8c

Is it not a far stretch to straighten the leg on the bow, then come down in the ending position after the arrow is released???