Bad Lesson

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Last night, I ran class. It was, without as doubt, the worst class I’ve ever run. Not necessarily the class members, but I just did a crappy job. I went in with a plan, and it all went to hell.

Here’s the list:

-rainy and cold out, so only two students(not necessarily bad, as I like running small classes, and the students generally enjoy it as well, but it gets worse).

-One student there when I got there, and one(who had to work late) on the way, but could only practice for an hour.

-The student there, a guy I know, learned a lot of external stuff before, is very good, but I have more experience in the system. I try to give him pointers on how our style uses power(similar to hsing yi, I don’t know the step, we call it biu ma, in hsing yi it seems to end in cat, but in ours, you end the technique in bow stance as a beginner, and a different stance later). He’s really good with form, but lacks real power, so I’m trying to help him, and this technique is one I’m pretty good at, but he doesn’t want to hear it, he says “No, its this way”, and I’m like, “I don’t think so, but we’ll ask when Mikey[our teacher] is at class”. [As a side note, it turns out I was correct, but I kind of knew that, as I practice this technique probably 50 times every day for months and months now.]

-When the other student shows up, she tells the first student that this woman he is interested in just broke up with her boyfriend. He is completely unfocused for the rest of the class.

-I have her working on a beginning form that she is almost to the end of, and him working on a intermediate level form he is half way through. While giving her pointers, she is learning well, but I’m trying to get her to focus on a particular part of a tiger technique, and he calls out to her “You did it better before” JUST when she gets what I’m trying to explain to her, making her doubt herself, and it takes me ten more minutes to retrain her on the legwork I’m trying to show her.

-I’m working with her, and I look over and he’s doing Longfist(nothing wrong with longfist, but its not what we’re practicing here.)

-I eventually manage to finish class, and he, who happens to be an old friend of mine, tells me that he thinks this woman he’s interested in is interested in our teacher, and that if she goes for our teacher, he probably won’t practice with our group for a while.

-After going for a drive with him and trying to talk to him, he drops me off at my car. I am so uncentered that I’m like, forget this, at least I’ll do some kung fu with the right mindset, and I spend an hour doing some of the worst form of my life, in the rain, and then I go home and do laundry.

Advice/comments/wisdom?

2

Good Nights-Bad nights

Take it with a smile. I suffer from this as well and that is “not everyone takes kung fu as seriously as I do”. Some like the excercise, some see it as a hobby. I my opinion I see things like this. Sometimes its not what you do but how you do it. I am a beginner about 2years 4 dys a week, I also take the class sometimes and get frustrated, then I think in the back of my mind that the worst thing is to discourage people(by showing frustration) or be all to militant. Go with the aumbiance your students are letting off. If they are serious, then go hard and train them with intensity, if they are in a lacksadasical(sp) mood then maybe a little less intensity and make the class more fun for that day. Either way you are training hard and they are happy.

Granted that there is a thin line between having students that have good days and bad days and then just having a lazy student. That Im sure we can tell the difference, plus thats a whole different can of worms.

Sorry if I steered of the subject, just babblin thoughts.

Shaolin36

Ren Nai, Yi Li and Heng Zin

3

Yeah, I guess I agree. However, part of the reason I’m allowed to run class is that I run a high intensity class. My teacher doesn’t charge, except in blood and sweat, and he expects his due payment, if you know what I mean.

4

aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
the best kind of payment. yes indeed

5

I usually turn those nights into throwing only nights. Somehow that brings out the spitrit in the distracted. :smiley:

6

Good advice, Monkeyslap. I’ll keep that in mind.

7

MonkeySlap, gettin thrown by you definately brings out something. I’m pretty sure it was almost my lunch :smiley:

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doesn’t sound like YOU had a bad class at all. sounds like you didn’t have much to work with. not your fault.

and like the others said, sometimes, there are just bad days. best thing to do is just accept it and forget it. the only way that bad days have any lasting power is if you grant it.

stuart b.

9

Be Like A Duck…Water Of the Back!!!

The only ones who had a bad day should be them. They missed out on your instruction. They’re not teaching you,you are teaching them. You already know this,they don’t. They cheated themselves.

10

I AM THE DUCK!

As Sean Connery would say, “What you feel is the quackening!”

That was really bad.

Thanks everyone. Great advice. I think she got a decent lesson, despite the interference, but he lost out, soooooo…

…I talked to my teacher last night, and said, “This guy is having trouble developing power, and I think its because of his biu ma, its not quite right yet.” and my teacher agreed, at which point I said, “Do you think next time he’s at lesson, after warm up and stretches, I could split off from the rest of the class and take him with me, and do constant biu ma for the rest of the class.” And my teacher pointed out that that would be 2 1/2 to 3 hours, and I grinned evilly and said, “I know.”

The beauty is that the guy is a decent martial artist, he just lets his ego get in the way. However, he’s a bit competitive, so if he starts wavering or complaining, I can just go, “Well, maybe traditional kung fu training isn’t for you, that’s okay,” and he’s sure to do it until his legs are pure fire.

Is it wrong to look forward to the torture?

11

Sounds like your friend there was taking advantage of your friendship and undermining your authority. You were in charge, and he, maybe conciously or unconciously, kept, not questioning your authority, but trying to take it from you. And praciticing a different discipline during class time is just plain rude, not to mention contradicting you while you were teaching another student.

YOU didn’t have a bad class, your friend was being a jerk. You had the perfect opportunity to really take those students to a good point on some aspect they were having difficulty with, and he sabotaged it every step of the way. Smack him around a little. :smiley:

Usually, when I only have a few students and class is left to me, we do technique exercises up and down the floor–like sweeps, different combos, etc. That way, we can work on things in the forms outside of the context/realm of the form and really take a singular look at it, as well as getting in a good sweat.

Robin

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Yeah, I was originally supposed to do a lot of drill work, but every one of them involved the biu ma, and he was being so impossible on learning it that I just wanted to split the two up and at least give her the chance to learn some stuff.

The other thing that ****es me off is he’s always hitting on female students, and trying to “teach” them(i.e. show off and get them concentrating on what he’s putting forward as opposed to the lesson plan) and I know a few of the ladies have become annoyed by this, but aren’t aware of the difficulties raised when one person is teaching someone, and he jumps in without any idea of the lesson plan. Something about cooks and broth comes to mind.

13

If it’s not a session, but a School, with set cirriculum of progression there…everyone on the kitchen staff can cook. But there is only one Head Chef. Point out that he knows a lot and is good or when he makes a correct observation or good point, acknowledge that for what it is. Correct or good. Then redirect in the next sentence that it’s true or yes, but that that’s not the lesson today nor the point right now. Then say what you need to to teach your point or continue the lesson.

Ask him to stop doing other than school’s stuff. Do this by giving an oppinion about how well he just did and say since you’re so good with that style and that he showed up today at your School, he might should get better at the School’s stuff by practicing it. He’s so good at the other stuff that he can stand to practice the schools stuff for a few hours and not lose the other stuff. He Can learn the School stuff at the School but not outside the School. So, while he’s at the School he would be most productive to do only School stuff since he can practice it there and get instruction to improve (his technique). which would be difficult to get outside the school or any other time than when he’s at the School. Some-such perhaps.

Also helpful redirect could be to indicate that knowing more stuff of the School’s system you hope to educate him in your system so that he with his grasp of Kung-Fu he could some day have enough knowledge of your System to instruct you in the nuances you know he can discover with diligent though perhaps arduous training/practice.

Form is Sanctuary. There is not ever bad form. All form teaches the practitioner. Be Angry or Sad or however but all ways be Correct when doing form. Whether analyzing Speed, Power, placement, technique…there is you and channeling everything else into the form and some aspect of it’s correctness. Keep this in mind always and do not ever disrespect a form again treating it like punching a heavybag to vent. Even if venting, use your efforts to understand the form better, always some improvement, even if only learning what doesn’t seem to work. That allows you to see better what you should be doing. And broadens your database for how it should not be done.~ It’s all Good~.

I No_Know :slight_smile: -ish

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It really isn’t possible to teach unless the student wishes to learn and you have his attention. Sounds like neither is the case.

Your plan sounds like trying to physically supress his ego for him, so he will move into into the proper mind set… finding himself greatful to you and eager to learn. I doubt that will be the result. More likely he will just resent you.

Another option might be for your teacher to take him down a notch during some personal “review”. Then when he doesn’t know which way to turn and is humiliated, perhaps your teacher would assign him to ask you POLITELY for help. :wink:

15

kc elbows

-After going for a drive with him and trying to talk to him, he drops me off at my car. I am so uncentered that I’m like, forget this, at least I’ll do some kung fu with the right mindset, and I spend an hour doing some of the worst form of my life, in the rain, and then I go home and do laundry.

–u did everything right … the uncertainty of anything but change … the form work in the rain while fighting a bad mental blinker was a classic i tell ya

16

Hey, KC,

Since the two of you are good friends, when you two are alone tell him that the next time you’re teaching another student, male or female, shutup. You could talk to your instructor and see what he says on how to handle students like that (you don’t have to name your friend, just ask in a general sense, you have this student who does this, how do you handle it?).

It’s kind of a sticky situation when friendship gets involved. You don’t want to alienate your friend, but he’s alienating you. Friends usually can tell each other to shutup, in ways they now will be understood.

Robin

17

Thanks for the advice everyone. NoKnow, thanks. That’s really my goal, to give him the chance to supplement his kung fu and become a brother in equal or better standing within the system. Also, that’s exactly the error I made with my forms: punching bag syndrome. Fortunately, looking back there were some good things I discovered about my forms, so it was not all loss.

SLC- My real goal in the heavy biu ma session, or at least the part of my goal that is important, is to let him see the merit to my way of training, not over his way, but as a way for him to understand I didn’t just assume this technique worked this way. I tend to practice a specific move a sickening number of times, and I become effective at it. Perhaps training him will be more complex than that, I’ll put some more thought to it.

Ginger Fist- Thanks. I hope you didn’t take it too personally, my kidding you about your posting style before. You seem to have been really good natured about it, and you clearly have some good working knowledge going on there. Found any good jobs shoveling **** against the tide yet?:smiley:

Robin- I think I’ll have no choice but to let him know at some point. You were exactly right about him undermining my authority. One problem I run into is he’s got a huge machismo problem, so as soon as women get involved(more he percieves women are involved) he has to get his ego all big, and he does this by trying to lower those around him. I’m not sure how I’m gonna talk to him, but its gotta be done. However, in the past, our friendship has not always been a positive one, and while I have changed, he has been very slow to do so, so he sometimes doesn’t understand that things have changed, and it makes real communication difficult.

What’s really weird is, friend or no, I’ve put a lot of thought into who I would teach and who I wouldn’t. I’ve always felt that kung fu is only a vehicle for self growth if you make it that, it can be just a method of fighting, too, so I always thought that if someone came to me to learn when I was a teacher on my own, I would only teach them if I felt they could be trusted not to hurt others, especially weaker people/innocents. I’ve often thought, if I were a teacher and my friend came to me to learn, that I probably wouldn’t teach him. His lack of self esteem and serious issues with women make his mental state too fragile right now to be trusted. This kung fu is complicated business!

18

tide move

Ginger Fist- Thanks. I hope you didn’t take it too personally, my kidding you about your posting style before.

–not at all … i’m a lazy bag of sh*it so i’m fair game at all times

You seem to have been really good natured about it,

–dude!! like i’m gonna cop an attitude with the cr*ap i sling?

and you clearly have some good working knowledge going on there.

–my mother & grandmother have taught my lazy bag of sh*it self well

Found any good jobs shoveling **** against the tide yet?

–4 sure!! turned out 2 b a union job tho … needed 6 months of apprentice shit shoveling 2 get my card … 4 the apprenticeship u r not allowed to use a shovel … only hands … fuck it … back 2 my father’s $ in my parents house … i’m doomed