Are Southern Styles Complete?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
1

I’ve heard that each Southern Style fous on some concepts and not others. Why is it the case?

For example Hop Gar, CLF focus on large sweeping moves. In their application, they are used for long range strikes. However, In my experience large moves are more useful in close to “dump” an opponent?

The same moves are not found in Wing Chun or Pak Mei which emphasis on short range strikes.

However, both aspects are jsut as important to the overall fighting ability as it covers different rangers and deals with different scenarios. Why is it that they train in one but not the other? Must we learn different styles to become a complete fighter?

Maximus Materialize!

2

Two words: Wrong.

oops. just one.

3

Wrong… sorry

i agree, maximus, you seem to have missed something…

anyway i think i can put in a bit more input in here…

i thought about this a while ago when sparring with a friend of mine who does longfist. we went on holiday together and spent and hour or two sparring on the beach everyday for about 2 weeks. which is a northern style, and consists of large movements and longrange attacks.we went on holiday together and spent and hour or two sparring on the beach everyday for about 2 weeks, so i had ample time to think about it and develop my technique to suite his style, as he did to mine.

i thought i (doing wing chun) would kick his ass completely, as long as i could get in close. this however wasnt the case. the reason being if i ever managed to get in close (he has been training quite a bit longer than me and is pretty much better than i am) he would either:
-push me backwards, way out of range.
-use infighting like elbows, uppercuts throws or takedowns
-step back.

so it ended up that it wasnt that simple. anyways my point is that in the case of long range fighting…which is his preffered range, he would completely destroy me. if i did manage to get in close, i would do much better at MY range, and actually land a good couple of centerline strikes.
usually however he would be able to cope more or less pretty well at close range though.

the point is this (sorry about the rambling) is that in wing chun, the best distance for a practitioner to be in is close range, (ie trapping punching elbows throws takedowns knees and very low kicks) in longfist, the prefferd range is long, (high or low kicks and punching using low forwards leaning stances eg bow and arrow stance.)
BUT… this is not to say that wing chun cannot fight at long range. i definately can, using kicks. i have less techniques at long range, but i do have some,the key to wing chun long range fighting is to bridge the gap, as in chum kui. there are many techniques to bridge the gap in wing chun and thus close in on the opponent and get into the best range for oneself. Long fist has the opposite, a large amount of long range techniques, with the emphasis on keeping that range, if the opponent closes the gap, the longfist fighter will have a couple of techniques to fight in close range, but the majority of them will be aimed at pushing or throwing or somethinging the opponent back to long range…

see what i mean i hope… btw this is all mho :smiley:

-specialization is for ants-

4

long & short range

Hi Nickle!

Must have been very interesting for you and your friend. Did you get time to swim :slight_smile:

Actually, long first refers to large movements not long range. Ok it would work medium range if you say do a bow stance and throw a punch.

However, these and many other large stances are used at close range - toe to toe, body to body for the purpose of leg trapping and toppling.

In the first line of long fist, you notice the large swinging arm movements. In Hop Gar theory, this would be to reach for an opponent some distance away. In long fist it is used to dump an opponent with the added leg traps used with the bow stance.

I guess the difference is that Wing Chun uses successive arm movements to deliver the shots like a “machine gun”. Long Fist is more like a “nuke” which takes out the opponent’s balance, attacking and defensive capabilities at the same time.

Of course the effecivness will depend on many things one of which you correctly mentioned is the difference in skill level. Timing, strength, reach etc all play a part.

Maximus Materialize!

5

From your experience long range systems work well in close to 'dump". Does this me you always get dumped, I think your mother "dumped " you on your head 1 too many times.

6

dumping

Bui ji

Like I said before, Northern systems are used between medium to short range. When I say short, I mean body to body. The shorter the distance, the larger the movements and wider the stance. You literally engulf the opponet and metaphorically consume your enemy. Think about the logic and forget the lies your southern bratherns have been feeding you!

I’ve never said theat these are long range systems - quite the opposite! They range is much shorter than things like Wing Chun thast throw little rabbit punches.

Maximus Materialize!

7

SHUT UP IDIOT!

8

Little Rabbit punches??

I know a certain Turkish WT guy that would
hit you with one of his little Rabbit punches
and you would wake up with little easter bunnys flying around your head.
That is IF you’de wake up.

9

Southern Systems

Tnwingchun

I’m quite a light sleeper and your right. Little rabbit ounches may not even wake me. Oh it’s easter bunny season!

BiuJi (what type of name is this - must be chinese LOL)

Yeah I know of a student who said the same thing to his master and was told to shut up. He later became an instructor and told his students tro shut up. It always has been, it is today and alway will be. Such is the nature of Southern Kung Fu that the sacred art is preserved for all time. Isn’t that right? tell me? go on tell me funny man? LOL

Maximus Materialize!

10

Ego…

of course different systems emphasize different techniques to deal with situations, otherwise we’d all practice the same system. different styles have different philosophies for dealing with a given situation, therefore different emphasis on technique and/or principle. just because one system focuses on an area to excel in does not mean it is incomplete… it just means it has a specialty. if you look around, pretty much all styles do this- there isn’t enough time to completely master all ranges of combat, and you really don’t need to! look at it this way.. if you excel in, let’s say, a few ranges… then your objective can be said to maneuver the opponent in this range so you will have the advantage. even Sun Tzu (Art of War) knew this, he stated something to similar effect. Know your advantages and use them. this is not to say ‘completely neglect all the other areas’, and a good gungfu style (southern, northern, i don’t care if it’s friggin irish style) will have elements of all included.

11

Totally unfair!

GreyMystik

You’re a smart person right?

It’s totally unfair to apply Tsun Tzung (Art of war) to southern systems because you know they’ll just … die.

They’ll be out manuvered, out hit out everything because teh throries themselves are shoddy.

Maximus Materialize!

12

Ego

of course they won’t die, all the proof i need is right here. you’re keeping them alive as well as i am by giving them attention. if ‘southern gung fu’ was defective by definition, it would not have survived THIS long. your arguments are unsupported… in fact, i could pretty much take any gungfu style and swap words with you, change ‘southern kungfu’ with ‘northern praying mantis’ or ‘philipino martial arts’ and make the same arguments you are. think about it.

13

Ego, while you are right about longfist, you are guilty of the blinkered vision that you claim to deride. The long arm techniques in CLF and Hop Gar all have extnsive Suai Jiao applications. CLF (I can’t speak for Hop Gar) also has numerous infighting moves. It is a comprehensive system, just like all other traditional chinese martial arts.
I was knocked out by a Fukien crane fighter on Sunday, so trust me when I say that shorthand stylists have punching power.

“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu

14

Don’t bother guys, Ego is a troll. I don’t bother trying to have a serious discussion with him because he doesn’t have serious discussions either. You don’t seriously believe he is a wheelchair-bound Southern Mantis instructor do you? If he was would he be questioning the effectiveness of southern kung fu?

Actually, I think Ego is Goktimus Prime or one of his friends. How correct am I Ego? Or are you like mercilessfighter or 5*? Or maybe calmguru?

Guns don’t kill people, I kill people

15

I thought that the term long fist alluded to the flowing nature of the river long (yangtzee river) and this is howo the forms are performed ie. in aflowing like motion? have I been mis-informed?

16

Ego,
If you understand your northern styles as you say you do, then you would understand that large movements can also mean short and short can mean large. Having practised Jow Gar, it only means that i reduce the large movement to a short one and i can they fight close range.

Wake up you moron!!
You understand nothing about southern systems. The practitioner,if he knows the system, will modify it to suit and use what he has. :slight_smile:

17

Southern Systems

Ben Gash
You’re probably a newbie in Northern kung fu to be knocked out by a white crane. Didn’t your instructor tell you that sunday is a day of rest and not to fight. The gods were against you that’s all. Don’t fret about it. It’s only spastics like me who learn Southern mantis Kung Fu. I’m sure you can beat a spastic on the other days of the week.

Abandit
No I’m not associated in any way to those losers you have mentioned. I’ve read a couple of post by Merciless fighter etc and they are all so boring. Put it another way, some people may call the Ego a troll but it is only because they can’t handle my sharp wit and logic. But I know you’re smarter than the regular net freak you should have realised that I don’t resort talking people’s bodily functions.

GreyMystic
One thing missing. Southern Kung Fu has never seen real combat. It was practiced and used by starving peasents to sort out their neighbourly disputes. For example it could have gone something like this. Farmer A accuses Farmer B of molesting Farmer C’s goat. So Farmer D agrees to allow Farmer A and C to duke it out on Farmer D’s rice padi. Meanwhile all the other Farmers in that pathetic little village namely Famers other than A & C watch the fight. Then rode into town was Warrior A - a northern Kung fu master who kills them all just for kicks.

Lungyuil
I think your getting all worked up and confused about short and long. I know of a Southern Kung Fu mater who did just that and his underpants had longer leggings than the shorts he wore. No need to ridicule - that person is me! the spastic master of Southern Mantis!

Maximus Materialize!

18

i’m thinking abandit is right about you EGO… you don’t have ‘wit and logic’, you’re just trolling and flaming.

19

I’ve been doing Northern styles a lot longer than you have. I mean let’s face it, we all know you’re Kelvin Chan, and we’ve all seen photos of you doing kung fu. If the rest of your Changquan sucks as badly as your Tan Tui you aren’t going to beat my grandma!
A more accurate translation of Changquan is extended arm boxing, although I quite like the river bit.

“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu

20

See Ego,
i tell everyone your not a waste of breath, you make it worthwhile to be on here just for a laugh. You oversized man you.
Tell me, how do you get out of bed in the morning. Do you have a crane to lift you up or does your bed tilt up???