I see the Green Dragon Studio’s ads in kung fu magazines all the time and I was just wondering if anyone had any comments on their tapes. The Green Dragon Sifu is John Allen who runs ads in different magazines. Any advice???
What type of material are you interested in. mabey I coud steer you to something youd enjoy?,What kinda style do you do? or interested in if a begginer? Id be glad to help in any way possible
Snake Eagle
Hello,
Snake Eagle, have you seen any of his tapes? I have heard various things both neg and postive. What systems do you have experience in? Alot of the articles that green dragon has done have seem credible. Any info or opinions will be appreciated.
Humbly yours
Johnny
They are mainly a “forms warehouse” and all detail and subtlety are gone. If you are looking for just forms for competition, they have some interesting looking stuff, but like I said, all stylistic nuance is gone. They blow through everything at the same speed and basically seem like they think it’s all the same. You get the feeling that they weren’t “taught” any of the material. They are very poor with the “internal” stuff because they are into body building and “strong always wins” and the Bak Mei and White Lotus they claim just sux a$$…
Their northern stuffs pretty funny too. Way too rigid, and lacking balance and focus, and the verbal delivery just sends me to sleep!
“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu
Greetings,
Yes, I know they offered many forms. I do recall a few years back John R. Allen put out a article on strength vs technique. It started alot of bad press and so fourh. Just where did John R Allen get his training? What videos or books would you guys suggest to get for information? Any suggestion or opinions??
Humbly yours
Johnny
i have a pak mei tape of theirs!!!
well they do have some nice looking stuff but, no resemblance to pak mei, postures no tun tou fau chum. 70% of weight on back foot, bum not tucked in, spine not straight.
peace
Hello,
Fiercest Tiger, how should the weight distribution be? So they do the movement but lack the detail that makes it powerful. I know that making the spine straight and tucking in the pelvis is common in many king fu systems. I have read about bak mei, yet i have no hands on knowledge about the system...maybe you could give your opinion on this.
Humbly yours
Johnny
chess boxer
weight is 50-50 even, but there hole structure is out of wack. never get ging like this!!
moves have similarities but not what i was after, no where near the real thing. all depends on what you want buddy.
hope this helps abit.. 
peace
they are the first to admit all there forms are put through the grid of southern shaolin. The forms are performed that way on purpose , if you ever see there team perform its much better. Sifu Allen studied with 6 sifus I believe lee ying arng was his main teatcher but he studied with chang deng cheng for 6 yrs aswell. At least he doesnt change the forms for the tapes like some well known sifus do., the narration on the tapes usually doesnt give as much info as id like about the forms histories, but he will gladly answer questions by mail, or phone if your lucky enough for them to give you the number,you should see his female students doing iron palm breaks, he definetly knows his stuf
Hello,
I remember most of the articles that I saw in Inside Kung Fu it had mostly females in the green dragon articles. The moves were demonstrated by females, that was a new thing for me to see. i remember in their old ads there was a pic of John, Chang, and Chicoine together.
Hello,
Green dragon doesnt have a web site. Yet, Gene Chicoine does. The url is <A HREF="http://www.shuaichiao.com." TARGET="_blank">www.shuaichiao.com.</A> I know Chicoine was working with John Allen for a while.
John Allen’s teacher
John Allen may have had a number of teachers. One that is not mentioned is Feeman Ong, one of the first to teach kung fu in northern Ohio. Master Ong graduated from Barberton Highschool in the late 1940’s early 1950’s.Master Ong’s teachers were supposedly three people, a master Kao Tao Sheng, currently living in Taiwan. He’s old, in his 80’s,and while head of the school,most training is done by his senior students. Master Kao was supposedly a teacher who pushed you to your physical limits. Then there was a master Jin, who was into internal training and of course taught with a lot of heart. Feeman Ong’s main teacher was a master Lau, one of those people who left to ,“go to the mountains.” However Fernando Blanco Dopazo (The Mantis Cave)says Feeman Ong studied under Wang Song Ting, a mantis sifu from Shantong. If you look in the Green Dragon catalog, you’ll see that a lot of the forms are from the Feeman Ong curriculum. Feeman Ong was legendary in the Cleveland/Akron area. He had a huge school, was really into herb formulas that were supposedly secret or very special.He had lots of training programs, from the 100 days arm grabs, to the big and small body, to the power exercises, and lots more. Small in height but over 200 pounds. When he died, his son took over the school and that caused lots of bickering or resentments among other students. If you look in the Akron yellow pages you’ll see off shoots of the Feeman Ong school. Whatever you think of Feeman Ong and his students, they really are dedicated practitioners. REALLY dedicated. They train. Some people feel that the forms are a wierd blend of northern and southern forms. I don’t know. I do know that what I’ve learned has helped me on the path. All errors, if any, are mine.
Greetings,
Thanks Pilgrim for the information. What about Gene Chicoine? What is his connection to John R Allen and green dragon?
They do not “believe” in internal power…
So they have Southern Shaolin Tai Chi, linear Ba Gua etc. and Hsing-I that looks like they are trying to achieve something but aren’t really sure what it is…
If they have legitimate material and teaching authority, they should stick with what they know, because evrything that they hold in their “catalog” that is not authorized is a straight up INSULT to that which they pretend to be so fully dedicated.
Hello,
Since in their ads they talk about having white lotus, which branch are these forms from? If they do have internal but not teach it for they believe in muscle, then wouldnt the forms be empty. By the way did anyone see the responses that John R. Allen and Chicoine had in the recent inside kung fu issue?
Yes
I did read it. I sent a rather long response to IKF that takes these two to task for really just being silly and taking on a victim mentality.
If they were really as great as they claim, they would prove it, just like anyone has too.
I personally doubt the worth of thier material on tape, and I am disapointed in Gene Chicoines approach to promoting the Chang Shia arts. I cannot attest to his skill, but if you ask around…
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.
Greetings,
I see monkeyslap too. What exactly is Mr Chicoine skill and background. i have read some of the past articles in Inside kung fu and havent really found a good source of info on who he trained with. By the way, may I ask what arts you practice? That is a good statement...if you have skill show it, if you work hard it will show.
Chessboxer…
I have records somewhere, but here is a summary: Gene Chicoine was a Karate guy who took on CMA rather late in life. Chang Tung Sheng beleived him when he said that he could grow Shuai Chiao into an international art. Unfortunately, While Gene Chicoine was put in charge of Chang’s organization, he disregarded the input of his seniors in the art and treated his leadership of the ISCA as leadership of everybody. As a result, no one wanted to follow him and multiple organizations formed. These other organizations have done much more to further thae art, whereas from reading his magazine articles the only thing I see Gene Chicoine promoting is himself.
I have a few questions for the ‘Green Dragon’ schools: 1.) Why don’t you (Gene Chicoine) compete as ALL Shuai Chiao groups have? 2.) If Gene Chicoine is so deadly, tell me who he beat. David Lin of Atalanta Georgia always seems to get defferential treatment from other masters because people know his fighting record. I have seen this first hand. Where are Gene Chicoine’s accomplishments? Shuai Chiao is an art proven on the mat. 3.) How long did he study under master Chang? What other CMA did he practice, and from whom did he learn?
This is not meant to be antagonistic, but all I ever get is attitude out of these folks, and not a whole lot of substance. They are welcome to prove that they are superior - but they would rather hide behind titles and make proclamations.
I am an open book, Chess Boxer. I hold pretty high falutin’ rank for those of you that care about rank in Shuai Chiao and the Chang Shia arts under the ACSCA. (although my comments are my own and NOT meant to represent the ACSCA) I also hold teaching certificates in Kali-Silat, Judo (from my teenage years), and have spent a lot of time with other CMA schools. There is more, but I find ‘rank’ stuff boring. I’ll be posting my teachers when I get my website up.
Over 20 years of hard training, and a lot of practical usage.
What do you practice Chessboxer?
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.