# Alan Orr Questions 5 Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring **URL:** \ **Category:** Wing Chun\ **Created:** [February 24, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975 "2012-02-24T23:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/1 "2012-02-24T23:22:59Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea) Question 5 in my Q & A series - Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring best Alan ---
**Author:** ![k\_gledhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@k\_gledhill](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/k_gledhill)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/2 "2012-02-25T03:16:43Z")
The wu sao on the forehead, “Tomahawk” move…😕 seriously ? ---
**Author:** ![Yoshiyahu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/94ad74/32.png) [@Yoshiyahu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Yoshiyahu)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:57am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/3 "2012-02-25T07:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1159897][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea) Question 5 in my Q & A series - Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring best Alan[/QUOTE] i think your brand of WC is more like Street Boxing…But its cool. I think a person really skilled at blocks would look similiar to what you are doing. Ne Way I see alot of compromise of WC techniques that have you using the covering as your main form of defense instead of bridging for control. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:34am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/4 "2012-02-25T10:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1159941]i think your brand of WC is more like Street Boxing…But its cool. I think a person really skilled at blocks would look similiar to what you are doing. Ne Way I see alot of compromise of WC techniques that have you using the covering as your main form of defense instead of bridging for control.[/QUOTE] What you see is your opinion and that is cool with me. But you don’t understand the progression or full principle behind what we do. Of course we use bridging. Any time we touch we have a bridge, it just depends on who has control of it. Compromise? not sure why you even think that. Street boxing - yes wing chun is hong kong street fighting right? or it used to be before people stopping fighting and made it into drills and demo’s of fighting. My main form of defence - I showed a small clip - its not the whole system or an answer to the problem. You hold on too hard. Also we are not blocking. We have 3 stages in controlling and defending hard pressure blocking is the last and its not a hand block as you may see it. More clips to come. Why not post some of what you do under hard pressure and also post some hard sparring showing it? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/5 "2012-02-25T10:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1159920]The wu sao on the forehead, “Tomahawk” move…😕 seriously ?[/QUOTE] No its the foreman that takes the punch, this is only when you are too late to counter the heavy rear hand. It allows you to stop taking the punch in the nose and still see and counter as the foreman is angled. We have used this in Pro MMA as the top level and it works very well. The body must be rooted behind the arm so the power goes into the whole body. If you miss your bridge and the punch heading for your nose what is next for you? Many wing chun don’t think about it as they don’t train that hard or with guys that are really trying to land the strike on them. When you do you think a but deeper and answer more questions with your wing chun. ---
**Author:** ![k\_gledhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@k\_gledhill](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/k_gledhill)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/6 "2012-02-25T15:33:15Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1159947]No its the foreman that takes the punch, this is only when you are too late to counter the heavy rear hand. It allows you to stop taking the punch in the nose and still see and counter as the foreman is angled. We have used this in Pro MMA as the top level and it works very well. The body must be rooted behind the arm so the power goes into the whole body. If you miss your bridge and the punch heading for your nose what is next for you? Many wing chun don’t think about it as they don’t train that hard or with guys that are really trying to land the strike on them. When you do you think a but deeper and answer more questions with your wing chun.[/QUOTE] Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Yoshiyahu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/94ad74/32.png) [@Yoshiyahu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Yoshiyahu)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/7 "2012-02-25T16:08:37Z")
correction…When I said blocks…i meant to qoute 52 blocks my bad…typing on the fly an miss some stuff…also what i meant by street boxing is basic techniques boxers use in the streets…I didnt mean street fighting…thats a whole nother animal all together…Im not saying what you do is bad or wrong. Just its like complete foreign to wing chun in my opinion. The principles may be similar but the excution of those principles is done as Hendrik would say from a different engine. The engine and vehicle you use to apply the WC principles is different than street fighting wing chun… You are right…thats a great idea about posting…I will soon one day been thinking about it… I know the way i intrepret wing chun most westerners on the forums will disagree because its not what their use too… [QUOTE=Alan Orr;1159946]What you see is your opinion and that is cool with me. But you don’t understand the progression or full principle behind what we do. Of course we use bridging. Any time we touch we have a bridge, it just depends on who has control of it. Compromise? not sure why you even think that. Street boxing - yes wing chun is hong kong street fighting right? or it used to be before people stopping fighting and made it into drills and demo’s of fighting. My main form of defence - I showed a small clip - its not the whole system or an answer to the problem. You hold on too hard. Also we are not blocking. We have 3 stages in controlling and defending hard pressure blocking is the last and its not a hand block as you may see it. More clips to come. Why not post some of what you do under hard pressure and also post some hard sparring showing it?[/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Yoshiyahu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/94ad74/32.png) [@Yoshiyahu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Yoshiyahu)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/8 "2012-02-25T16:11:39Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1159947]No its the foreman that takes the punch, this is only when you are too late to counter the heavy rear hand. It allows you to stop taking the punch in the nose and still see and counter as the foreman is angled. We have used this in Pro MMA as the top level and it works very well. The body must be rooted behind the arm so the power goes into the whole body. If you miss your bridge and the punch heading for your nose what is next for you? Many wing chun don’t think about it as they don’t train that hard or with guys that are really trying to land the strike on them. When you do you think a but deeper and answer more questions with your wing chun.[/QUOTE] We also utilize cover hands…but not like your doing per se. But we do utilize cover hands. Its cool though Good stuff as way of fighting…just disagree with trying to use cover hands as your first result unless your rushing in on a opponent who is throwing random punches with out proper technique. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/9 "2012-02-25T18:36:41Z")
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1159958]correction…When I said blocks…i meant to qoute 52 blocks my bad…typing on the fly an miss some stuff…also what i meant by street boxing is basic techniques boxers use in the streets…I didnt mean street fighting…thats a whole nother animal all together…Im not saying what you do is bad or wrong. Just its like complete foreign to wing chun in my opinion. The principles may be similar but the excution of those principles is done as Hendrik would say from a different engine. The engine and vehicle you use to apply the WC principles is different than street fighting wing chun… You are right…thats a great idea about posting…I will soon one day been thinking about it… I know the way i intrepret wing chun most westerners on the forums will disagree because its not what their use too…[/QUOTE] Yes I agree, my wing chun is different. But in terms of street fighting - What I am showing works in both, but on the street I have more tools as well. These are very small clips, so again don’t hang on what I say it all depends on many things. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/10 "2012-02-25T18:39:11Z")
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1159959]We also utilize cover hands…but not like your doing per se. But we do utilize cover hands. Its cool though Good stuff as way of fighting…just disagree with trying to use cover hands as your first result unless your rushing in on a opponent who is throwing random punches with out proper technique.[/QUOTE] Again you are talking as if I said that’s what I do all the time. We don’t just cover as our first call, also we are not just covering anyway. Nothing is so simple. The clips are to give an idea of a different way of looking at application. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/11 "2012-02-25T18:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1159956]Good luck.[/QUOTE] The more I train the more luck I seem to have. But thank you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_fighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ba0ec/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_fighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/kung_fu_fighter)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/12 "2012-02-25T18:59:08Z")
I don’t create a bridge, my opponent creates one for me when trying to defend himself against my attacks. When I strike my opponent, he has Basicly 3 options. 1. He does nothing and get hit 2. His hands or feet comes in contact with mine as he tries to cover up, block, or reach for my limbs. 3. He evades my line of attack ---
**Author:** ![k\_gledhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@k\_gledhill](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/k_gledhill)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/13 "2012-02-25T20:02:42Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1159969]The more I train the more luck I seem to have. But thank you anyway.[/QUOTE] Likewise…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Phil\_Redmond](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/phil_redmond/32/186_2.png) [@Phil\_Redmond](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Phil_Redmond)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/14 "2012-02-26T05:54:04Z")
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1159920]The wu sao on the forehead, “Tomahawk” move…😕 seriously ?[/QUOTE] Wu Sao means guarding/protecting hand. You can “protect” high/low. The strike was at his head so he “protected”. You can’t write a novel if you use the alphabet from A-Z sequence. You have to mix the letters up. Likewise, you can’t expect a live fight to have perfect hand positions like in the forms. ---
**Author:** ![k\_gledhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@k\_gledhill](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/k_gledhill)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/15 "2012-02-26T12:00:09Z")
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1160057]Wu Sao means guarding/protecting hand. You can “protect” high/low. The strike was at his head so he “protected”. You can’t write a novel if you use the alphabet from A-Z sequence. You have to mix the letters up. Likewise, you can’t expect a live fight to have perfect hand positions like in the forms.[/QUOTE] Translating wu ? Wu sao is a new attack with a specific position for a reason . its useless at the forehead 😃 Like a soccer goalie going back into the goal as a shot is made. He runs backwards into goal 😃 Its not just the fact that its wrong, its going the wrong way, backwards, it goes forwards to attack from its positions… It intercepts as a fundamental action by design mindlessly. He did it in a DEMO not a live fight 😉 Positions tactics techniques ? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/16 "2012-02-26T16:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1160072]Translating wu ? Wu sao is a new attack with a specific position for a reason . its useless at the forehead 😃 Like a soccer goalie going back into the goal as a shot is made. He runs backwards into goal 😃 Its not just the fact that its wrong, its going the wrong way, backwards, it goes forwards to attack from its positions… It intercepts as a fundamental action by design mindlessly. He did it in a DEMO not a live fight 😉 Positions tactics techniques ?[/QUOTE] How can you tell me what I am doing is wrong? The system of wing chun I teach is CSL Wing Chun. Is not the method that you know or understand. Wu can be used in many ways and any direction. We do not limit it in the way you are talking. Once you have the correct principle within the structure of the system then you can apply the concept. In my mind you have it the wrong way around. Demo yes to show an idea. Demo with Pro fighters that use what I show all the time. Thats why we know what we show works. Its all been tested with fighters. I have just had one of my guys win Kickboxing title a few weeks ago! ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/17 "2012-02-26T16:15:03Z")
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1160057]Wu Sao means guarding/protecting hand. You can “protect” high/low. The strike was at his head so he “protected”. You can’t write a novel if you use the alphabet from A-Z sequence. You have to mix the letters up. Likewise, you can’t expect a live fight to have perfect hand positions like in the forms.[/QUOTE] Phil, I agree 100% ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/18 "2012-02-26T20:11:33Z")
[http://www.fightstartv.com/videos/pete-irving-vs-timo-seidel-kickboxing/](http://www.fightstartv.com/videos/pete-irving-vs-timo-seidel-kickboxing/) Red shorts This is my guy Pete in action a few ago. ---
**Author:** ![GlennR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GlennR](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/GlennR)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/19 "2012-02-26T21:46:32Z")
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1160094][http://www.fightstartv.com/videos/pete-irving-vs-timo-seidel-kickboxing/](http://www.fightstartv.com/videos/pete-irving-vs-timo-seidel-kickboxing/) Red shorts This is my guy Pete in action a few ago.[/QUOTE] Days, weeks, months?? Says he’s from the Semtex gym Alan, does he cross train with you guys? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Orr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Alan\_Orr](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Alan_Orr)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975/20 "2012-02-26T21:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=GlennR;1160100]Days, weeks, months?? Says he’s from the Semtex gym Alan, does he cross train with you guys?[/QUOTE] sorry weeks ago Pete has been training with me for the last 2 years and on and off before that. You can see him controlling the fight with his structural power and using cutting punching and many of the things I teach. Pete now works at Semtex and teaches MMA at their gym, so he is now also part of their team as well as the Iron Wolves (my team). Semtex is an excellent gym with lots of fighters for Pete to teach. Pete is one of my main sparring partners now days as well. I keep forgetting to get an Iron Wolves patch! [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/alan-orr-questions-5-where-is-tan-bong-sau-in-sparring/52975.md?page=2)