A true statement if I've ever heard one :)

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

From the interview/article with the Wah Lum Master.

Commonly heard in America is Bruce Lee’s saying, “Absorb what is useful, then discard the rest.” The proper response is another old saying, “Don,t throw the baby out with the bathwater.” The major problem with “absorb what is useful” philosophy is that it tends to lead to quick judgements based on immature study. There is merit and lessons to be learned from all aspects in life; however in order to learn them it takes patience. The Northern Style student who studies close range styles like Silat and Arnis to fill in the perceived “holes” in their main system isn,t being clever, just impatient.

All I can say is… beautiful.

peace

2

Amen, to that.

Peace.

3

True, but…

From what I’ve seen in MA, most of the advanced methods in one system are the basics in another. We’re all training the same stuff, we just place different levels of importance on said stuff.

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“The major problem with ‘absorb what is useful’ philosophy is that it tends to lead to quick judgements based on immature study.”

Not necassarily.
Sounds to me like someone else just trying to find fault in Bruce Lee. I guess he deserves it considering he discredited all styles of kung fu :smiley:
In Mr. Lee’s defense, everything he said is true, to a degree.

5

Hi.

I disagree.

If you are always looking and hunting for the more useful/better stuff, you only tend to evaluate techniques by their surface value.

But it takes time to learn and study a system/style to see it’s full benefit.

There is a chinese saying:
“The man that chases 2 Hares goes home emtpy-handed.”

Said, that on another Board there was a similar discusson recently and it was agreed that in order to do successfull crosstrainign you need the following.
1.) Good foundation and understdaning in your first style.
2.) Good Instruction in your new style, with the consent of your old Master.
3.) Help from both Instructors to assimilate your newfound knowledge into your Original style.

This type of training has been done for Centuries, and is beneficial if done properly.

Personally, I don’t think that Bruce Lee had either a good foundation in Wing Chun (3yrs, Green Sash) nor had real quality instructions in the other styles he studied after he came to the US.
One story I heard he studied WC from age 14~17 and was asked to leave the Kwoon as he insistd on teaching classes due to his high skill level.

He ws a good Martial Artist and Dancer, but I also feel that he was a bit too headstrong for his own good.
Hence the problems with the police and his emmigration to the US.
Which could have partly been due to him being a Child actor since age 4 or 5.

As for his Death.
IMHO, his Body gave out as he never appeared to learn balancing different aspects of his Life. He tried to push himself and his Body way to fast and to far.

In JMA we say:
“You cannot serve 2 masters, nor can you be married to more than 1 Wife.”

Too many modern MA jump between styles the minute they either got a BB or they think that they have got the goods, when in reality they barely have mastered the basics.In JMA 1st BB (Shodan) literally means “Beginner Rank”.

Just some random rants and ramblings.

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Hey Red Fists.
I’m speaking in terms of skills, not technique (yielding, rooting, Dan Tien development, Power structure, Jing training) I can name at least one system that teaches each of these as a basic, primary skill. I’m also talking about studying it for a good 3 years (the skill, not the system)

It’s a point you can argue, but I think it will changr the gist of your argument.

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Hi Water Dragon.

Having studied a few Systems myself, I agree with you.
Now studying a combined system.

But the article, methinks, was about techniques not skills.

I.e.: Take a kick from here, a throw from there, a Pressure point strike from here.

We are agreeing I think that a technique without underlying skill is useless.

IMHO, Bruce Lee looked for Techniques not skills.

Anyhuh, back to Lunch.

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You guys will be surprised, but I very much agree with that. :slight_smile:

Taken to the extreme, the “absorb, reject” stuff can be very dangerous.

Bruce agrees too :smiley: I just called him. The trick is to find the cause of your own ignorance. Without it you’ll never be able to absorb anything. :wink:

Ryu

9

Totally cool, im saving that quote, Kung Lek.

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“The Northern Style student who studies close range styles like Silat and Arnis to fill in the perceived “holes” in their main system isn,t being clever, just impatient.”

Let’s say, just hypothetically, that I was a northern style student studying a groundfighting style like brazilian jiu jitsu to fill in a percieved “hole” in my system. Am I being impatient? Should I stop taking brazilian jiu jitsu, and hope that after I’ve taken Baji long enough, I’ll be so good that I won’t need to worry about ground fighting anymore?

P.S. This is a trick question

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“Within Reason,” is a mantra that I learned from a friend a few years ago, and applies across the board to ANY concept.

The danger of concepts is that we tend to dismiss those we don’t agree with by pointing out the absurd example–ALL ideas or virtues taken to their logical extreme conclusion are absurd.

We all agree that effective law enforcement is necessary to an orderly safe society, but I think we’d all disagree with a government such as that in Orwell’s 1984.

We all believe that we should be left to live our lives more or less as we see fit, but none of us believe that a person has the right to live the life of a serial rapist.

Aristotle may not be the most “advanced,” in the annals in western thought, but he’s got some goodies yet.

12

Bruce Lee? Green Sash?

And Bruce studied with Yip Man, the most well known WC instructor of his time.

Look at his form and look at the way he does chi sao - AWESOME fundamentals.

13

MerryPrankster would make a GOOD Buddhist! :smiley:

Ryu

14

So would Aristotle apparently. :slight_smile:

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Hi HuangKaiVun.

It is my belief that it takes more than a good Teacher to make a good martial artist.

I am also pretty sure that not all of Yip Man Students are top of the line Fighters.

A Teacher like Yip man guarantees top level instruction not a top level uptake by the Student.

But I doubt that even Yip Man could create a very high level Ma in 3 yrs.

Peace.

P.S.: I would never judge a Martial Artist by what he shows in a Movie.

Movie fighting and real skill are 2 different Animals.

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HuangKaiVun

“Look at his form and look at the way he does chi sao - AWESOME fundamentals.”

Where can I find a clip of him doing chi sao?
The only clip I’ve seen of him doing it was when the other guy was just letting him attack, more for demenstration purposes i think…

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you need a base

Without a base how can you possibly assess what is good for you? You need dedicated study of a single art to build your spacial awareness and martial intelligence to a high enough degree before you can examine another style and decide what is good for you.

Which is my second point - you cannot teach someone else what is useful for them from another style, they have to draw their own conclusions through playing with it. It will be different for everyone.

Last point - taking what is useful is relative to your understanding of that technique (based on your own experience) - dedicated study of an art brings an understanding beyond the superficial. In Karate I initially despised doing it - fixed pairs work seemed ridiculous to me - you punch, I block and respond. After I moaned about it to my instructor he told me to stick with it for 6 months more and then decide what to do. 4 months on I find the pairs work does actually have uses - looking beyond the basic ‘A punches B responds’ to the techniques involved and the nuances that are present. Often what seems useless at first sight suddenly begins to make sense after dedicated study.

Actually this is my last point - Arnis is an exceptional training tool - working with sticks and knives at speed builds an awareness and intent that is hard to replicate unarmed. When you return to open hand work it becomes a lot slower and easier to deal with. The additional arts that I work aren’t there to fill perceived gaps - they are there to take shortcuts. If I want to play with the balance of speed and power in combination punching techniques I go and use the bag - it is the best training tool I know. It wasn’t that long ago that the bag was first introduced to martial arts - it’s a shortcut. Likewise the Wing Chun wooden dummy - I use one at home to practice Taiji because I can’t always find a partner - another shortcut. However, first and foremost I study Taiji, at all times my Taiji principles are in use - it is my base.

Another ramble over :slight_smile:

18

In response to Kung Lek’s original post, word.

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…

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Mr. Nemo

You hit my sweet spot with that question…

I say yes, you are being impatient. Why do I say this? Because I firmly believe that all good MAs have what is needed to survive a fight. All else being equal, the guy who has studied the hardest, will win if he understands the things he has studied. I say this because my art WC, has been accused on occasion of being weak on the ground, but I have seen some pretty good demos that prove otherwise, its in the art, you just have to unlock it. This only happens with patience.
I believe that it is hype that you have to cross train to be an effective fighter, at any range. I come at this from a street level, live or die standpoint, not a sport fighting stand point by the way.
I think that patience is definitely a virtue in the ma.

Nice quote KungLek, I like it. Bruce may have been right to a certain degree, but I see it this way. Guys like Bruce Lee have big egos, and they tend to get in the way of thier progress. Bruce may have found that some things worked for him while others did not. this is true with anyone in any style, some things may work for you, others may not. In this way you may have to ‘throw out’ some things and work on the stuff you are good at. I dont however think you need to crosstrain to cover deficiencies, if you do, you probably havent studied long or hard enough, or your instruction has been bad