What shouldn't be taught to young children?

[xinyidizi]

My xinyi and taiji teachers both told me that these styles shouldn't be taught to kids younger than 13~14 and if I remember correctly they said it was because they cause the body to contract and the tendons to get longer, therefore they would stunt the growth in children. My xinyi/chaquan teacher told me that I could only teach an external art like chaquan to children. So how true do you think these claims are and do you think that it's necessary to wait until they are about 13? The reason I'm asking is because a few people have asked me to teach their young children taiji and I'm not really sure if I should.

[Raipizo]

That's crazy you hear all kinds of people doing it. Most kids would probably be bored though.

[RWilson]

Originally Posted by xinyidizi

My xinyi and taiji teachers both told me that these styles shouldn't be taught to kids younger than 13~14 and if I remember correctly they said it was because they cause the body to contract and the tendons to get longer, therefore they would stunt the growth in children. My xinyi/chaquan teacher told me that I could only teach an external art like chaquan to children. So how true do you think these claims are and do you think that it's necessary to wait until they are about 13? The reason I'm asking is because a few people have asked me to teach their young children taiji and I'm not really sure if I should.

That is all crazy talk. I would not teach body conditioning, from thai boxing for example, to kids. Tai chi and hsing I are soft, not in the internal qi hugging way, but in their training. When I studied hsing I we did a lot of straight line forms to develop rooted power. The 5 elements were held off because we had not developed enough root to issue the needed power of each punch which is a bunch of horse sh!t. They were just fuking with us and trying to lead us on. The main training in tai chi is the form and that is really easy on the body. They are always talking about how good tai chi is for old people which means it is good for anyone.

If you are teaching the forms of hsing I and tai chi then teach away but you should add a bit of kickboxing in to keep them interested. Forms are lame.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by xinyidizi

My xinyi and taiji teachers both told me that these styles shouldn't be taught to kids younger than 13~14 ...

Not too sure about XingYi, but my teacher won't teach any students Taiji under 30. The reason is simple, when you are still young, you should jump, run, stretch, punch, kick, spar, wrestle, ... When you get old, you will have all the time in the world to "move slow", "stand still", and "to be soft".

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by xinyidizi

My xinyi and taiji teachers both told me that these styles shouldn't be taught to kids younger than 13~14 and if I remember correctly they said it was because they cause the body to contract and the tendons to get longer, therefore they would stunt the growth in children. My xinyi/chaquan teacher told me that I could only teach an external art like chaquan to children. So how true do you think these claims are and do you think that it's necessary to wait until they are about 13? The reason I'm asking is because a few people have asked me to teach their young children taiji and I'm not really sure if I should.

from a physiological standpoint, it's the sort of typical non-sensical TCMA perspective where the teacher spouts something ridiculous using anatomical terms that they have no idea about

as far as the temperament of children, unless they are intrinsically very disciplined, they are not going to be interested in taiji, unless it's the cannon fist section of Chen or something, because kids like to move around;

my only question would be WHY the parents want to have their kids learn taiji at such an early age? I would never inflict that on my son (7 1/2 ) - the most "taiji" I do w him is our goofy version of push-hands (which is still teaching him taiji principles, but he doesn't know that...); otherwise I send him to a BJJ class so he can roll around w kids his own age / size and have a good time; for the parents who want taiji for their kids, I'd b wary that they hare doing it because they heard it's "good for you", or maybe the kids are having trouble "focusing' in school or some other sort of sensory issues; if that's the case, if u r up for the challenge of working w crazy parents / neurotic kids, good luck w that...

FWIW though, I have a friend who is a taiji teacher who is also a phys ed teacher who just started teaching taiji/kung fu to middle school students as part of the PE curriculum (he's been ding kids kung fu classes at his school, and at a summer camp for some years now) - if he's going to be successful, it's because he's a fun guy who knows how to relate to kids - are you?

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

when you are still young, you should jump, run, stretch, punch, kick, spar, wrestle

yes; kids need to be kids; the problem is that even if you do this stuff in a structured class setting, you are impeding the natural creative flow of play; unfortunately, our overly litigious / risk averse society has all but demolished the ability of kids to be on their own and do this sort of thing; of course, that's not to say it's a good idea for a group of kids to play king-of-the-hill on top of a 30 ft. pile of gravel at an abandoned construction site either, but having little Johnny go from school to soccer/piano/skating/tae kwon do/jazz tap/time-management classes every afternoon isn't gonna work either;

ah, Happy Medium, whither art thou gone?

(FYI, my kid does BJJ 2x /wk after school, and piano Saturday mornings; except during 3-4 months of ice hockey season where he does hockey 1-2x & BJJ 1-2x depending on what he's up for - in general though, if he comes home from school and is "done", we don't go)

[xinyidizi]

Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn

from a physiological standpoint, it's the sort of typical non-sensical TCMA perspective where the teacher spouts something ridiculous using anatomical terms that they have no idea about

as far as the temperament of children, unless they are intrinsically very disciplined, they are not going to be interested in taiji, unless it's the cannon fist section of Chen or something, because kids like to move around;

my only question would be WHY the parents want to have their kids learn taiji at such an early age? I would never inflict that on my son (7 1/2 ) - the most "taiji" I do w him is our goofy version of push-hands (which is still teaching him taiji principles, but he doesn't know that...); otherwise I send him to a BJJ class so he can roll around w kids his own age / size and have a good time; for the parents who want taiji for their kids, I'd b wary that they hare doing it because they heard it's "good for you", or maybe the kids are having trouble "focusing' in school or some other sort of sensory issues; if that's the case, if u r up for the challenge of working w crazy parents / neurotic kids, good luck w that...

FWIW though, I have a friend who is a taiji teacher who is also a phys ed teacher who just started teaching taiji/kung fu to middle school students as part of the PE curriculum (he's been ding kids kung fu classes at his school, and at a summer camp for some years now) - if he's going to be successful, it's because he's a fun guy who knows how to relate to kids - are you?

They are my neighbors and sometimes they see me practicing as I train close to the children's playground. Once I was practicing a few fajin moves and two kids started imitating me. That's why the parents asked me to teach them but I am also sure they won't be as interested if I have them start from the beginning. As for stunting the growth why is it that they say similar things about kids who do gymnastics intensively from an early age? Is there really a relationship between growth and the type of sport children do? Does jumping and kicking of an external art make them grow taller? Does standing low for a long time, opening the kua, sinking deep,.. of internal arts prevent their growth?

[Andy Miles]

When I was a little kid I was told by many Chinese that some some kinds of kung fu will make you short. In 8 Step Mantis there are specific guidelines for training at every stage of life. From infant qi gong and bone stretching to training over the age of 90. Within our tradition guided training should not happen under the age of 6 and really serious training should start around 13-15 for boys. Training should change based on time of day, time of year and stage of life.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3194019/


http://journals.lww.com/sportsmedart...uences.11.aspx


Case of triplets
http://journals.lww.com/cjsportsmed/...owth_of.9.aspx

[RWilson]

Originally Posted by Andy Miles

When I was a little kid I was told by many Chinese that some some kinds of kung fu will make you short. In 8 Step Mantis there are specific guidelines for training at every stage of life. From infant qi gong and bone stretching to training over the age of 90. Within our tradition guided training should not happen under the age of 6 and really serious training should start around 13-15 for boys. Training should change based on time of day, time of year and stage of life.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3194019/


http://journals.lww.com/sportsmedart...uences.11.aspx


Case of triplets
http://journals.lww.com/cjsportsmed/...owth_of.9.aspx

Can we stop the nonesense already? Infant qi gong? I would love to see your infant to do specif coordinated movements with breathing and proper intention. You will tell your baby that and he will just blink at uou and crawl away. Stop this mystical bs. Changing the training at different stages is a given. Train hard when you are young and strong, tone it down when you are injured, and tone it down when you get older depending on your health. It differs from person to person but setting specific standards for everyone will not gain results. It is similar to giving everyone a cookie cutter workout or diet.

[bawang]

the child must learn that the world is a cold, merciless place, and only the strong survive. the weak must perish. the child must learn by any means neccesary.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by bawang

the weak must perish. the child must learn by any means neccesary.

Agree!

I learned Taiji when I was 7. Since my 1st Taiji teacher was a "Taiji for health" guy, his Taiji didn't help me much in my fighting against other kids. When I was 11, I started to train the Lohan system. With serious drills in "1 step 3 punches", my neighbor kids stopped to push me around.

From the "combat" point of view, the Taiji system won't fit a kid's need from my personal experience. For a kid, nothing is more important than just to learn how to do "a punch to the face".

Nice thing such as Sung, yield, follow, stick, sink, ... will have no meaning to a kid.

[IronFist]

Originally Posted by xinyidizi

My xinyi and taiji teachers both told me that these styles shouldn't be taught to kids younger than 13~14 and if I remember correctly they said it was because they cause the body to contract and the tendons to get longer, therefore they would stunt the growth in children. My xinyi/chaquan teacher told me that I could only teach an external art like chaquan to children. So how true do you think these claims are and do you think that it's necessary to wait until they are about 13? The reason I'm asking is because a few people have asked me to teach their young children taiji and I'm not really sure if I should.

TCMA and especially IMA people have already proved they don't understand what tendons are or what they do.

BUT, I will accept that the translation of "tendon" is different in Chinese so maybe they got confused that way.

Back on topic:

Young children ("young" meaning under 16 or so) shouldn't really do:

- hard contact sparring (general conditioning like hitting a punching bag is ok, but no specific fist/shin conditioning)

- weight lifting with heavy weights ("heavy" being heavier than a 6-8RM or so, and even then it's probably best to err on the side of 8+). Note I can't remember the reason for this but I'm pretty sure it's true

- super deadly qi techniques. While playing with his friends, a child might accidentally summon a qi blast and accidentally kill his friends during a game of tag.

[xinyidizi]

BUT, I will accept that the translation of "tendon" is different in Chinese so maybe they got confused that way.

My teacher said 筋 so maybe I didn't translate it right but I don't see why it can't be right. If the tendons don't get stretched then how come by practice we can go deeper in standing and get a flexible kua? Even in my hands and shoulders I can feel that it's much harder for people to do qinna on me comparing to when I started.

[bawang]

Originally Posted by xinyidizi

My teacher said 筋 so maybe I didn't translate it right but I don't see why it can't be right. If the tendons don't get stretched then how come by practice we can go deeper in standing and get a flexible kua? Even in my hands and shoulders I can feel that it's much harder for people to do qinna on me comparing to when I started.

in modern chinese it means tendon. in classical chinese it means muscle.

[Andy Miles]

Originally Posted by RWilson

Can we stop the nonesense already? Infant qi gong? I would love to see your infant to do specif coordinated movements with breathing and proper intention. You will tell your baby that and he will just blink at uou and crawl away. Stop this mystical bs. Changing the training at different stages is a given. Train hard when you are young and strong, tone it down when you are injured, and tone it down when you get older depending on your health. It differs from person to person but setting specific standards for everyone will not gain results. It is similar to giving everyone a cookie cutter workout or diet.

Knowledge is magic to the uninitiated. Since you seem to think that I meant that the baby would be doing an exercise routine, I can see that you are in need of some help.

There is preheaven bagua and post heaven. Qi gong on the extra 8 are done to reset your extraordinary vessels. I know leg breakers and thugs in China with a who have done this as part of their training.

You get dealt a hand of cards by nature. The extraordinary channels let you trade some of them in for a better hand.

What are extraordinary vessels? http://www.geneticacupuncture.com/Kw...0109600418.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyahTD7oB8w

Daoist practices involve using stem cells, nitric oxide and DNA methylation. It is about maximizing your ability and having more fluid adaptation.