teaching Chin-Na/Cum-Na

[Lucas]

of course dislocations are bad, but they happen if you train a grappling art. if you have ever trained any form of grappling over an extended period of time, you would know this, and more than likely would have experienced at least 1 dislocation to your own body. thats the way it works, always has and always will.

like sanjuro ronin mentioned, a dislocation in a grappling art is akin to broken noses, black eyes and cuts in a striking art. its the risk and eventuality you take in training to fight. fight training is not easy and it is not free of injury. ask anyone who has trained for a decade or so and have them list all of their training related injuries. if its contact and resistant, there will be a list.

[ginosifu]

Originally Posted by TenTigers

ok-we've exhausted this subject, so let's move on.
QUESTION: how many of you have learned locks from a handshake?

why?

(besides the obvious-he owes you moneys...
or he's being a jerk and squeezing your hand, and you want a less violent method, rather than striking..)

Wing Lam Sifu told me this:

In ancient China, people were leary about touching (hand shakes and othe touching gestures), because of the fear of of unscrupulous men who might put you into a joint or other type of attack at that close range.

So, the bow or salute was implemented to keep folks you don't know at a distance but still showing respect. The hand shake is quite an easy position to grapple someone.

ginosifu

[goju]

plus you dont know where someone was scratching and pickin before hand

so you got to watch out for that too

or someone who will joint lock you with their smelly butt hands

[Hebrew Hammer]

Originally Posted by Lucas

of course dislocations are bad, but they happen if you train a grappling art. if you have ever trained any form of grappling over an extended period of time, you would know this, and more than likely would have experienced at least 1 dislocation to your own body. thats the way it works, always has and always will.

like sanjuro ronin mentioned, a dislocation in a grappling art is akin to broken noses, black eyes and cuts in a striking art. its the risk and eventuality you take in training to fight. fight training is not easy and it is not free of injury. ask anyone who has trained for a decade or so and have them list all of their training related injuries. if its contact and resistant, there will be a list.

Sanjuro's original post came across, like you should be getting dislocated as part of your training...kind of a tough man thing...but later clarified it as an accidental part of training, it may happen or does happen but shouldn't. It shows lack of control, improper training, and or too much technique. The forces required to dislocate a joint like knee, elbow, and shoulder are far greater than the ones that will cause a broken nose, breaking the skin, or few blood vessels.

Have you seen Master Killer's neck xrays? He's damaged for life from years of cranking his neck doing grappling...could he have still trained hard, sunk in the locks or cranks with out applying as much force and still got the point? I'm willing to bet he and his training partners could have, maybe he didn't think it would at the time but attacking these major supportive joints to the point of dislocations, is foolish in my opinion, the long term ill effects on your body have yet to be realized. Wait till your cartilage starts to deteriorate with age...joint replacement surgeries, chronic pain, loss of range of motion etc. What exactly are gaining by this?

I've done Judo and wrestling, albeit in my teenage years and dislocations were not common and we trained hard.

I could easily see finger dislocations occurring during Judo waza, it getting caught in a gi while performing a throw...your body going one way and your opponents another.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Hebrew Hammer

Sanjuro's original post came across, like you should be getting dislocated as part of your training...kind of a tough man thing...but later clarified it as an accidental part of training, it may happen or does happen but shouldn't. It shows lack of control, improper training, and or too much technique. The forces required to dislocate a joint like knee, elbow, and shoulder are far greater than the ones that will cause a broken nose, breaking the skin, or few blood vessels.

Have you seen Master Killer's neck xrays? He's damaged for life from years of cranking his neck doing grappling...could he have still trained hard, sunk in the locks or cranks with out applying as much force and still got the point? I'm willing to bet he and his training partners could have, maybe he didn't think it would at the time but attacking these major supportive joints to the point of dislocations, is foolish in my opinion, the long term ill effects on your body have yet to be realized. Wait till your cartilage starts to deteriorate with age...joint replacement surgeries, chronic pain, loss of range of motion etc. What exactly are gaining by this?

I've done Judo and wrestling, albeit in my teenage years and dislocations were not common and we trained hard.

I could easily see finger dislocations occurring during Judo waza, it getting caught in a gi while performing a throw...your body going one way and your opponents another.

Yeah, I didn't really think that anyone would read it that way, my bad.

[RWilson]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Yeah, I didn't really think that anyone would read it that way, my bad.

Sorry for jumping down your throat.

Dislocations are not like bruises and broken noses in boxing. Dislocations are like hitting someone hard enough to cause whiplash, break shins, broken collar bones, boxers fracture, etc. Dislocations are bad news.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by RWilson

Dislocations are bad news.

My wife had a dislocation on her shoulder in one of her ground game because she refused to tap out. She went to ER for that. Today she can still do weight press "forward", but she can't do weight press "upward". Some injury will carry forward for the rest of our life.

[bawang]

Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown

How do you feel about anal prolapse?

i rub dit da jow on it

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by RWilson

Sorry for jumping down your throat.

Dislocations are not like bruises and broken noses in boxing. Dislocations are like hitting someone hard enough to cause whiplash, break shins, broken collar bones, boxers fracture, etc. Dislocations are bad news.

No worries and to be honest, when I posted that I was thinking along the lines of finger dislocations, wrist sprains, elbow "pops", you know, the common crap.
Complete dislocations suck BUT they are manageable and they are not fight stoppers always.

[taai gihk yahn]

Originally Posted by bawang

i rub dit da jow on it

it's true! every time I've had a problem with that, he rushes right over w a bottle of jow to take care of it...

[Scott R. Brown]

Originally Posted by bawang

i rub dit da jow on it

Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn

it's true! every time I've had a problem with that, he rushes right over w a bottle of jow to take care of it...

And you never wondered how dit jow all over your buttocks and rectum helps your joint dislocations?

[Subitai]

Originally Posted by TenTigers

I have the feeling that I have been way too kind to my students when it comes to them feeling certain techniques, strikes included. Way kinder than my teachers were to me, and I'm still here.

Did you ever stop to think that mabe your just a Martial arts Nut and that mabe you're a just a oddball or perhaps a dying breed?

Originally Posted by TenTigers

ok-we've exhausted this subject, so let's move on.
QUESTION: how many of you have learned locks from a handshake?

why?

(besides the obvious-he owes you moneys...
or he's being a jerk and squeezing your hand, and you want a less violent method, rather than striking..)

BTW, The end of your last quote almost sounds as a rhetorical question, or are you really asking about handshakes?