Wing Chun Kuen Kuit

[WingChunABQ]

Do you know any (trustworthy) resources online that have the full Wing Chun Kuen Kuit in English?

Thanks!

[chunner]

Originally Posted by WingChunABQ

Do you know any (trustworthy) resources online that have the full Wing Chun Kuen Kuit in English?

Thanks!

ask your sifu

[WingChunABQ]

We have ours at our kwoon, but I'd like to compare different translations/ renditions of the Kuen Kuit to get a better understanding of the language used - shades of meaning and all that.

[LoneTiger108]

Originally Posted by WingChunABQ

We have ours at our kwoon, but I'd like to compare different translations/ renditions of the Kuen Kuit to get a better understanding of the language used - shades of meaning and all that.

Which Kuit are you referring to exactly as there are quite a few 'collections'? I don't know about online stuff being accurate because half the time the characters themselves are not shared, and they too can be interpreted differently fme.

[WingChunABQ]

Originally Posted by LoneTiger108

Which Kuit are you referring to exactly as there are quite a few 'collections'? I don't know about online stuff being accurate because half the time the characters themselves are not shared, and they too can be interpreted differently fme.

Right. This is why I want to do a little homework and cross referencing. The Kuit that I know (those posted on the wall of my kwoon) are from the Yip Man lineage. However, they are in English. I've seen several different translations which contain sometimes divergent shades of meaning ("watch your sex life" vs. "observe good morality" and so forth). I'm trying to find ones that are the closest in meaning to the Yip Man Kuit.

However, your post makes me think of another question - do different lineages have different kuit? If so, I'd be interested in knowing them too.

Thanks!

[couch]

Originally Posted by WingChunABQ

Right. This is why I want to do a little homework and cross referencing. The Kuit that I know (those posted on the wall of my kwoon) are from the Yip Man lineage. However, they are in English. I've seen several different translations which contain sometimes divergent shades of meaning ("watch your sex life" vs. "observe good morality" and so forth). I'm trying to find ones that are the closest in meaning to the Yip Man Kuit.

However, your post makes me think of another question - do different lineages have different kuit? If so, I'd be interested in knowing them too.

Thanks!

Shameless self-promotion (and a link to wcarchive's Kuen Kuit at the bottom):
http://darkwingchun.wordpress.com/20...-fu-kuen-kuit/

[LoneTiger108]

Originally Posted by couch

Shameless self-promotion (and a link to wcarchive's Kuen Kuit at the bottom):
http://darkwingchun.wordpress.com/20...-fu-kuen-kuit/

Shameless!

Good advice nevertheless but I do hate the fact that the Chinese lines of Kuit are not presented.

[LoneTiger108]

Originally Posted by WingChunABQ

However, your post makes me think of another question - do different lineages have different kuit? If so, I'd be interested in knowing them too.

This (sort of) suggests to me that you were not 'taught' these lines and you may have things that are more akin to 'Rules' rather than 'Hints & Tips'.

If it is rules you want (directly from Ip Man) I have found no better example than Sifu Sam Kwoks here



As for 'actual' original Kuen Kuit online, let's see if anyone else can point you in the right direction.

And my own lines I was taught are not online sir! And I don't think they will EVER be shared publically or outside the family. But I do live in hope and am working to try to get more out there, but I have so little really compared to most. I would check out Augustine Fong and Moy Yats direct students first

[couch]

Originally Posted by LoneTiger108

Shameless!

Good advice nevertheless but I do hate the fact that the Chinese lines of Kuit are not presented.

As stated before, there is a link at the bottom of the post that goes to wcarchive's list - which I believe is most complete.

[WingChunABQ]

@Couch - nice blog!

@Lone Tiger - Awesome! Thanks a lot.

As to whether or not I was taught them, I was, but they were never very central to our learning curriculum. They were on the wall and we read them, but we never studied them directly as one might a "primary textual source". Occasionally my sifus would reference them when explaining a principle or application but we never went through them systematically. This is something I'm trying to rectify now for myself, which is the purpose of my starting this thread.

So my next question would be: Do many WC schools spend time in class directly studying the Kuen Kuit, and if so, how is it incorporated into the curriculae?

Thanks again!

[LoneTiger108]

Originally Posted by couch

As stated before, there is a link at the bottom of the post that goes to wcarchive's list - which I believe is most complete.

Complete? In English you mean?? And who translated everything they have used on that site? Who out of the translators have actually used the information to teach to students?

Sorry for being so negative, but this does frustrate me. Far too many decent resources have been 'used' by the modern internet soldiers and they rarely credit the original source. Mentioned in a thread recently too I think??

[LoneTiger108]

Originally Posted by WingChunABQ

So my next question would be: Do many WC schools spend time in class directly studying the Kuen Kuit, and if so, how is it incorporated into the curriculae?

Let's start with an easier question:

Who learns even their basic Wing Chun curriculum in Cantonese/Chinese?

Very few I think, and so to delve into hints and tips from generations of Wing Chun ancestors and actually using the knowledge to teach is asking a bit much I think. But that's just me. I've tried to learn the lingo and reading/writing and I know how hard it is, so I don't blame anyone if they're not interested at all.

I preferred to teach a simple numeric system in the end and saved the actual 'teaching' for those who also wanted to teach And that is very few indeed!!

[WingChunABQ]

Originally Posted by LoneTiger108

Complete? In English you mean?? And who translated everything they have used on that site? Who out of the translators have actually used the information to teach to students?

Sorry for being so negative, but this does frustrate me. Far too many decent resources have been 'used' by the modern internet soldiers and they rarely credit the original source. Mentioned in a thread recently too I think??

This is why I've been leary about the WC Archive version. It's not necessarily bad, but it's not cited so it's academically dubious.

As for using the Kuit as a curricular tool, it seems that they ought to have a place in a WC school alongside forms and drills. I've never seen that done, per se. I'd like to increase my own understanding of the art and the kuit is definintely one bit of the system in which I could stand to improve.

[LoneTiger108]

Check out one of our first pictures with my Sifu in 1995. On the wall in the background was our first few lines

More of a set of methods than advice, and this was always stuff we referred to as Hao Kuit or 'spoken verse' which were shouted out during training for us to react to because they were more instructions than advice, if you get what I mean?

[WingChunABQ]

That's whats a little puzzling to me about them. Some of them are very specific and technical: "Avoid Pak Sao in the Inner Door".

while others sound more like 'open' aphorisms that are open to interpretation:

"The Fist is not polite", "Punch from the heart", and so forth.

The first ones I mentioned sound to me like instructions. The others sound more like principles.

I guess I'm a bit confused as to how they're organized.

I also don't have enough knowledge about how didactic poetry was used in classical Chinese martial arts schools. Like, did Yip Man make his students memorize the kuit like one might make them memorize the forms? Would they be discussed? Were they treated as some kind of 'holy writ of Wing Chun' or were they simply a set of loose thoughts that the grandmaster felt were important enough to write down?