Fighting not the answer

[Minghequan]

If there is one aspect or specific area that I am trying to improve upon and impart to our members and students then it would be the philosophical side of our White Crane Boxing or Gongfu.

I personally feel that there are a plethora of systems “out there” that are only concerned with the concept of winning or worse yet, ‘kill, kill, kill” at all cost type of martial arts. Such approaches fail to take into consideration the moral, ethical and yes legal circumstances of defending oneself from possible attack.

They teach to strike first and to go for the throat, no mercy, keep on going until the opponent can no longer stand, continue or live, Kick “em” while their down and don’t stop until they are severely injured or dead!

What message do these arts give to their members or to society at large? Is this the right message to be imparting? Many in society and yes our communities see violence as something glamorous and empowering.

Its in our media and on our streets everyday. But should it be this way. Glorifying violence is not the way forward and winning over another often for the sake of the self-ego means that there is something fundamentally wrong within such a individual as a person.

A real fight is a terrifying thing, based on behavior. As humans, we all interact and react sadly most on a violent level. Real fights are behaviorally driven and behavior is learned and therefore can be changed.

Pre-emption strikes can be used when a threat arises but are not always the best path to go down. De-escalation of the situation through verbal and body actions should be encouraged before going down a path which is often hard to return from.

Ethically, morally and legally Its more advantageous to de-escalate a confrontation and avoid fighting if at all possible. Applying no attempt to defuse the possibility of a violent situation will raise the person’s guard, make him/her prepare themselves for a fight on a physiological level that may lead to and act of violence. And even if you win such a confrontation what have you really won? What about retribution against you or worse, your family?

It just may be that the person has had a bad day and who out of us hasn’t had one? There is enough darkness and despair in this world without us within the martial arts contributing to it.

The basic rules of Self Defence are avoidance, escape, de-escalation, and only if that does not work, then finally fight to escape. Its more often than not ego that calls out to defend honour that probably doesn't need defending.

What worries me is the trend towards fighting for glory, ego and trophies. What I am seeing is a ever increasing group of angry people (young and old) walking around, some with weapons just waiting to get into a fight to satisfy their own short-comings as people, ready to lash out at anyone who approaches them or who in their minds has done something towards their egos. This is a very, very unhealthy and dangerous attitude to instill in people.

This is what the true martial arts are against. Such a bad attitude and loss of personal self-belief flies in the face of what the martial arts are truly all about. The arts should instill confidence and provide the person with the tools to avoid violence at all costs. They should plant the seed of personal self-growth within the individual that they can then take with them through life. This then is what our White Crane Martial Arts hopes to do for those who choose to study it. Making good people, better is our aim.

[YouKnowWho]

When you

- are as rich as Bill Gates, you can then say "money is not important".
- are 100 years old, you can then say, "I have lived long enough".
- have WMD, you can then talk about "world peace".

There is big difference between "can't do" and "won't do". Without martial ability, Wude is just empty words.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Minghequan

If there is one aspect or specific area that I am trying to improve upon and impart to our members and students then it would be the philosophical side of our White Crane Boxing or Gongfu.

I personally feel that there are a plethora of systems “out there” that are only concerned with the concept of winning or worse yet, ‘kill, kill, kill” at all cost type of martial arts. Such approaches fail to take into consideration the moral, ethical and yes legal circumstances of defending oneself from possible attack.

They teach to strike first and to go for the throat, no mercy, keep on going until the opponent can no longer stand, continue or live, Kick “em” while their down and don’t stop until they are severely injured or dead!

What message do these arts give to their members or to society at large? Is this the right message to be imparting? Many in society and yes our communities see violence as something glamorous and empowering.

Its in our media and on our streets everyday. But should it be this way. Glorifying violence is not the way forward and winning over another often for the sake of the self-ego means that there is something fundamentally wrong within such a individual as a person.

A real fight is a terrifying thing, based on behavior. As humans, we all interact and react sadly most on a violent level. Real fights are behaviorally driven and behavior is learned and therefore can be changed.

Pre-emption strikes can be used when a threat arises but are not always the best path to go down. De-escalation of the situation through verbal and body actions should be encouraged before going down a path which is often hard to return from.

Ethically, morally and legally Its more advantageous to de-escalate a confrontation and avoid fighting if at all possible. Applying no attempt to defuse the possibility of a violent situation will raise the person’s guard, make him/her prepare themselves for a fight on a physiological level that may lead to and act of violence. And even if you win such a confrontation what have you really won? What about retribution against you or worse, your family?

It just may be that the person has had a bad day and who out of us hasn’t had one? There is enough darkness and despair in this world without us within the martial arts contributing to it.

The basic rules of Self Defence are avoidance, escape, de-escalation, and only if that does not work, then finally fight to escape. Its more often than not ego that calls out to defend honour that probably doesn't need defending.

What worries me is the trend towards fighting for glory, ego and trophies. What I am seeing is a ever increasing group of angry people (young and old) walking around, some with weapons just waiting to get into a fight to satisfy their own short-comings as people, ready to lash out at anyone who approaches them or who in their minds has done something towards their egos. This is a very, very unhealthy and dangerous attitude to instill in people.

This is what the true martial arts are against. Such a bad attitude and loss of personal self-belief flies in the face of what the martial arts are truly all about. The arts should instill confidence and provide the person with the tools to avoid violence at all costs. They should plant the seed of personal self-growth within the individual that they can then take with them through life. This then is what our White Crane Martial Arts hopes to do for those who choose to study it. Making good people, better is our aim.

fighting may not be the answer but saying martial arts were developed for anything other than killing the opponent is to re-write history and gloss over its past.

Why you train, and why the arts were invented are two totally DIFFERENT things

[RenDaHai]

There is a big difference between 'kung fu' and 'wushu'.

Wushu means the martial arts and yes it is just about combat.

But gong fu is something more. And historically it was never intended as combat. China has always had both wushu and 'gong'. To call a pure fighting art 'kung fu' is completely wrong. Kung fu is closer in meaning to Yoga. Wushu and kung fu happen to go together well because Wushu trains the body. Also there is an ultimate irony involved, in order to perfect your understanding of your higher nature you must confront the most primitive parts of yourself, those that reside in combat.

An old kung fu maxim is 'lian wu bu lian gong, dao lao jiu shi kong' or something like that, it means to learn wushu without 'gong' is to waste your life.

I agree with Minghequan. In lots of MA i see this attitude of 'an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth' or even worse. This attitude was primitive 2000 years ago. Its not the way of someone who practices gong fu.

The nature of Gong Fu is what really seperates traditional MA from their modern counterparts. Although modern MA may be more effective combat training in many cases they are lacking in the spiritual domain.

[David Jamieson]

I think people will struggle with understanding what ron is saying here.
I agree with it in it's wholeness of content.

[lkfmdc]

fighting is not the answer

[David Jamieson]

Originally Posted by lkfmdc

fighting is not the answer

seriously...

[lkfmdc]

Well jamieson, I guess there is no crime in Canada so you'll never have to face someone who wants to hurt you and that you'll have to defend yourself, right?

I mean, MARTIAL arts arent' about fighting, no one in China ever used them to fight, and we should all just go eat granola and concentrate on our navels now

[David Jamieson]

Originally Posted by lkfmdc

Well jamieson, I guess there is no crime in Canada so you'll never have to face someone who wants to hurt you and that you'll have to defend yourself, right?

I mean, MARTIAL arts arent' about fighting, no one in China ever used them to fight, and we should all just go eat granola and concentrate on our navels now

NOt actually no.
But I don't think martial arts training will save you from crime and I don't think it wil help you defend yourself in context to modern criminals who will just shoot your ass or stab it or beat it with a bat or whatever.

some desparate hungry fool trying to steal a purse? Yeah, that guy get's a stomp, but a dude in a darth vader suit carrying a little magnum bulldog semi auto chunk?

yeah, the world of martial arts will do nothing there.

I think that in this day and age, H2H falls way short of what the world is gonna throw at you.

If you like to train to fight, that's cool, but don't kid yourself about thinking it will do anything for you in a situation where you actually need to protect yourself from a criminal filled with violent intention and better equipped than you to carry it out.

Get a gun, learn to use it and you will have increased your chances of self defense by 1000% over any and all martial arts clubs out there.

[hskwarrior]

it would be the philosophical side of our White Crane Boxing or Gongfu.

I personally feel that there are a plethora of systems “out there” that are only concerned with the concept of winning or worse yet, ‘kill, kill, kill” at all cost type of martial arts. Such approaches fail to take into consideration the moral, ethical and yes legal circumstances of defending oneself from possible attack.

They teach to strike first and to go for the throat, no mercy, keep on going until the opponent can no longer stand, continue or live, Kick “em” while their down and don’t stop until they are severely injured or dead!

What message do these arts give to their members or to society at large? Is this the right message to be imparting? Many in society and yes our communities see violence as something glamorous and empowering.

it's my personal opinion that THIS....THE ABOVE is whats wrong with TCMA today. It's like "Why join the army if you're opposed to war?"

let's see...

Talk your way out: After the aggressor pounds you into the floor or during?

Run Away: This will only escalate the situation, especially if the aggressor had homeboys. or.....you get shot in the back as you run away.

And even if you win such a confrontation what have you really won? What about retribution against you or worse, your family?

My sifu used to say "whether you win or lose you still lost cause the aggressor got what he wanted out of you. it's smart not to instigate the fight, but you should never back down from one.

my question is to the De-escalator's, the talk-em downs, the runners......the pacifists....WHAT DO YOU WHEN SAID AGGRESSOR'S FIST MAKES A CONNECTION WITH YOUR FACE and he doesn't stop although you are asking him nicely to do so?

Again....De-escalators, talk-em downs, the body languagers, WHY DID YOU TAKE UP LEARNING THE ART OF WAR if you don't plan to utilize it for what it's designed for?

[David Jamieson]

In all fairness Frank, there are so many variables that anything that is posted there is as valid as your counter situations.

why learn to read and write if you aren't going to produce a novel?
why learn to drive a car if you aren't going to be a racer?

martial arts and in context to asian martial arts and some of the philosophies that are not only extrinsic but intrinsic to some of them does indeed present the idea of eternally present dichotomy in all things even war. and any of it's methods.

for every attack, there is a counter.

[JamesC]

Originally Posted by David Jamieson

NOt actually no.
But I don't think martial arts training will save you from crime and I don't think it wil help you defend yourself in context to modern criminals who will just shoot your ass or stab it or beat it with a bat or whatever.

some desparate hungry fool trying to steal a purse? Yeah, that guy get's a stomp, but a dude in a darth vader suit carrying a little magnum bulldog semi auto chunk?

yeah, the world of martial arts will do nothing there.

I think that in this day and age, H2H falls way short of what the world is gonna throw at you.

If you like to train to fight, that's cool, but don't kid yourself about thinking it will do anything for you in a situation where you actually need to protect yourself from a criminal filled with violent intention and better equipped than you to carry it out.

Get a gun, learn to use it and you will have increased your chances of self defense by 1000% over any and all martial arts clubs out there.

This.

Also, it really isn't that hard to stay out of trouble. Common sense can keep you from having any problems most of the time.

However, there's always a chance you'll draw that short straw and find yourself in a dangerous situation.

If possible, beat their ass. If not, shoot them instead. You guys can do what you want, but i'm not going to be the idiot that brings only his fists to a gunfight.

[hskwarrior]

then i guess thats the eternal struggle then.....

The esoteric side of martial arts are for the Hippies....in my opinion. I guess so was anti-war too for a a while huh? hahaha

For every attack there is a counter attack? so when the person hits you, you take it out on the cement by hitting it pretty hard?

it's just my personal opinion really, its like if you don't want to fight, take up kick ball, bowling, Bocci Ball, or join discussion groups.

Martial arts is about training for war. fighting. hence all of the punching, kicking, maiming, and so forth. i have yet to meet a teacher of martial arts who is worried whether he is being tooo rough on an aggressor or not.

ITS JUST MY OPINION

why learn to read and write if you aren't going to produce a novel?
why learn to drive a car if you aren't going to be a racer?

1. So i may be able to read the love note my girlfriend wrote me and write her back.

2. because the store is a mile and a half away from my house, there are no buses, i have no bike, and my feet hurt.

[David Jamieson]

I'm just saying, be realistic about what your martial arts training is about.

In my opinion, it is not realistic to think that any martial arts training will be the solution to fighting crime. Or to being enough to defend yourself against violence in all it's forms.

[hskwarrior]

Fighting is NEVER really the solution. But, it IS a necessity for survival.